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AMC Spirit Rally Car

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jebidia24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AMC Spirit Rally Car
    Posted: Sep/29/2017 at 5:33pm
I am interested in building a rally car out of an AMC Spirit (in this case a kammback).  The car is in rough shape but is square and is a west coast car so I don't think the rust monster is too bad.  I will post pictures of the car soon.  I've read posts regarding people using Eagles as rally cars which I think is really cool but unless you have enough coefficients on your rally licence it is incredibly difficult.  I consider myself an experienced amature mechanic and am a professional engineer (not licenced as one.....yet).  This will be my first rally car build and I have read the Rally America rule book, extensively.  I have also volunteered at many rallies in my region.  Since I do not currently posses a rally licence and I therefore have no coefficients on it I am limited to one of two classes, Group 2 (2 wheel drive cars, 3.0 liters of displacement or less, and naturally aspirated) or Open Light (AWD cars, 3.0 liters or less, and naturally aspirated).  Now I could stretch the displacement by using a push rod (OHV) engine up to 3.3 liters.  Also the engine block make must be an engine block manufactured by the car manufacturer.   For my build I would like to use the much hated AMC 121 engine (as known as the VW/Audi/NSU engine).  Although this engine was designed by NSU later Audi/VW, VW/Audi never used it in any of their vehicle save for the smallest Transporter Van.  VW/Audi licensed the design out to AMC to be built in the USA and therefor qualifies as an AMC built engine.  Also VW/Audi licenced the engine to be built by Porsche after the Porsche/VW rear drive Scirocco project fell through who then redesigned it for fuel injection and put it into the 924.  The reason for using this engine is that not only does it fit in the class I am going for (group 2) but the OHC design gives it a higher redline which is useful in rally. I already have one of these engines in working conditions and plan to increase its pathetic performance using some Porsche 924 go fast bits.  The plan is to fit the dual side draft weber carb kit which is currently available which should go fit the already carbureted AMC 121.  I would also like to increase the compression ratio using different (again porsche 924 pistons) and install a longer duration cam (once again Porsche 924 cam) followed by Porsche 924 headers and a custom exhaust.  More to come later, I have more designs worked out but I am tired of typing right now.  Interested in peoples opinions and possibly find someone who has gone down the AMC rally car road before me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/30/2017 at 3:53pm
I know the extra weight wouldn't help,
but a 199" short stroke crank & a +.020" 199/232/258 block = almost exactly 3.3L.

If the 4.0L head, or Edelbrock's aluminum head were legal you could build a pretty high winding potent little L6.

The AMC/Audi 4 is interesting,
I just imagine it being an expensive build.
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g-man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote g-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2017 at 3:27am
Michael,

I got a couple questions.
What is in the car now? (engine, tranny)
Also, are you staying with 2 wheel drive?
Lastly, I understand your reasoning behind the 121ci idea...and I know what those engines can do...
But have you considered the 2.5L iron duke?
These motors are very sturdy (although boring in their stock configuration) 
Since you have a displacement limitation, you should research this motor for the aftermarket racing development they've done with it.
Purely amazing that this motor is still run in ARCA racing with very high outputs...I believe around 450 hp, if I remember correctly.
Of course they are using all aftermarket pieces, but I believe that most, if not all of them will bolt into the original block. (and you could probably pick up some still usable 2nd hand parts at a discount)
Not to mention that the 2.5L has a Chevy 350 bolt pattern, making tranny choices a bit less complicated.
Just food for thought...I would at least look into it, you might get interested in going that route.
By the way...dig the Kammback.

g-man
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jebidia24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/02/2017 at 8:46am
G-man,
I have a duke which lost all it's oil, which is strange for an iron duke.  I would love to build a SD4 but the parts are hard to find these days (I do have a NOS SD4 valve cover) and I'm not sure what the rules say about using an engine built by another manufacturer but stock in that model of vehicle.  If I thought I could find enough pieces (I searched rigorously) and the rules allowed it I would totally go down that route.  Especially if I could get my hands on one of those SD4 Cosworth DOHC 16v heads.......a man can dream.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/02/2017 at 8:52am
I considered that choice also as the AMC inline 6 gives my many part options (that edelbrock aluminum head is sweat, I considered buying it for my 258 eagle resto project).  I may even go down that road as I get more coefficients on my rally license.  When that happens I will probably do a 258/4.0 conversion and either go dual carb or build an ITB setup (I like NA engines).
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/02/2017 at 8:54am
Not sure, but I think a member use to run rally back in the late 80s.

I found him, he actually posted on my thread, so it was not a big search. His name is nickleone.

He may pop up in on your thread. I do remember the biggest issue with front suspension is the strut rod. He bent them a lot, and they eventually break. I found a better option for upper ball joints, and also made a pretty stout update to the factory strut rod setup. Though I would think you would go with a CF suspension to cover rally abuse.


Edited by 304-dude - Oct/02/2017 at 9:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nickleone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/02/2017 at 11:50pm
AMC fan,
Look at these posts etc

http://theamcforum.com/forum/grm-challenge-spirit-chassis-setup_topic79790_post716829.html?KW=#716829
http://theamcforum.com/forum/lower-control-arm-box_topic79668_post715910.html?KW=#715910
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/amc-police/amc-rambler-police.htm
http://theamcforum.com/forum/69-rambler-front-rear-drum-to-disc-brake-conversio_topic79323_post713693.html?KW=#713693

Nick

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jebidia24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/05/2017 at 4:20pm
Here are some hasty photos I took of the Spirit, upon further inspection the underbody of this car is super clean.
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jebidia24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/05/2017 at 4:31pm
Nick,
Thanks for the information, it will be useful.  I would like some more information regarding your Gremlin ProRally car (whether it be old posts or outside links).  For suspension purposes, I was thinking about buying the control freak coilover suspension kit for the AMC Spirit.  It comes with tubular control arms and Viking double valved shocks.  Now, I am not sure if the shocks will hold up that well in a Rally situation as it is a track car setup but it's a start.  I would also likely go the same route for the rear suspension and lose the leaf springs for something with better articulation.  Interested in any thoughts (from anyone).
http://www.freakride.com/product/amc-front-coil-over-conversion-systems/ - http://www.freakride.com/product/amc-front-coil-over-conversion-systems/
http://www.freakride.com/product/amc-4--coil-over-rear-suspension-systems/ - http://www.freakride.com/product/amc-4-link-coil-over-rear-suspension-systems/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nickleone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/06/2017 at 12:05pm
I boxed the upper and lower control arms. The uppers were prone to cracking.
The biggest problem is the strut rod which bends in hard compression from a jump etc.
With your lighter front end you might not have those problems.But you should find spares.
Nick
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