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AMC 401 engine problem |
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Vweberdk
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/25/2017 Location: DK Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Apr/25/2017 at 12:20pm |
Hallo guys
Hoping for some really good advise here, Since im beginning to go mental crazy soon. I did a semirenovation on my engine this winter. I replaced my main bearings and oil pump gears/houseing because my oilpressure Was kinda low, and this upgrade very succesfull. I now have 25-30 psi of pressure when warmed up. My other upgrade was to renovatedmy iron heads. They were done by a machine shop. New valves, seats, and both in and outtake was ported. New Lunati 268 degree cam installed with New timing gear. New comp cam rocker arms (bridged), New hydraulic flat tapped. Decided through to use the old push rods Since they seem okay. Now.. my huge problem. The engine is almost impossible to start, and i Think i found out why. I'm have almost 0 vaccum on the starter, but on e started up, i have around 10-12 HG/in. I know, not much. I than took a compressiontest.. I have around 120-130 psi (11 bar) at cylinder 1 - all other 7 cylinders are half, like 60 psi (5-6 bar). Okay - do i have a head/valve problem or maybe my cylinders took a smeltdown in wintertime..?? Than we took a leak Down test all 8 cylinders in the green with only 10-15% leak on a could engine, so im pretty sure know my heads/valve are tight, and regarding my cylinders, why on Earth should all 7 gode bad, and not cylinder number 1.... I simply dont know what im doing wrong. My new timing gear is lined up (standard) with cylinder 1 at TDC. I do belive i have a decent lash on my lifters (without oilpressure) Then the engine starts, its running very very hard og the exhaust is 3 times as loud as it use to be. I know the cam, and the ported heads my have some influence, but it seems Strange. What on earth am I looking at here ?? Lengh of push rods, wrong timing (and why) other misc ??? What confusing me is, why the h*** i have a decent compression on cyl 1 and all the otters are pretty much crap.. Any, and i mean any suggestions are very welcome. Please take in mind, im not a mecanic, so lets try keep the terms and expressions a little simple Thx |
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304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
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You sure did a lot all at once. Meaning a cam install, heads and rockers.
I would try and minimalise what had been done. One, is new lifters or old? Used with new cam bad idea. Two, still have the old bridged rockers? Try them to see if ratio or geometry is wrong with the new ones. Properly torqued heads? Too little and you won't seal properly. Too much you may end up cracking your heads. Plus there is a proper method... i will search and post a link. I like to do segments in upgrades or updates... As one you get to see how things are affected according to what was changed. Plus it is easier to go back if needed. Too many things done at once, makes for a lot of guesswork. Let us know the answers to my questions, as you left no details into what actually was done, just some parts and simplified changes to leave us in expectation of things being properly checked. |
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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
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Vweberdk
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/25/2017 Location: DK Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Okay i'll was maybe a little to fast ;-)
Yes the lifters are also new (same brand and a combo kit) My rocker arms should have a 1.6 ratio - and i there is no diffenrence as far as iI Can see. My heads are torgued down with (i think 110 lbs) 150 NM in a speficic order - inside and out. / |
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tsanchez
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/09/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 4303 |
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I would guess you have valve lengths that are different and have affected the lash, try loosening the lash on all one turn and see what happens, or you can go and manually check each for preload
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shootist
AMC Addicted Joined: May/24/2012 Location: Triad, NC Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Wiped cam lobes or lifters perhaps? You can check travel on the valves and make sure they are opening fully. If they aren't chances are good the cam/lifters got wiped.
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SCRAGTOP
AMC Nut Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Chesapeake, VA Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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You are having valve sealing issues. I would start by looking at the preload on the rocker arms. Loosen up all the rocker arm nuts until there is no resistance when you spin the push rod. Then I would take a compression test again and see if that did anything. If nothing changed, then I would think about pulling the head and lapping the valves. Still sounds like the valves are not sealing which will bleed off all of your compression.
If you have a leak down tester that would really be the way to test the cylinders... My 70 390's with factory pistons pull 180 to 185 cranking compression. So I think your number 1 cylinder is also leaking down... |
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304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
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I would think his compression may be a wee lower than your 70 390. My 73 304 had 155 minimum. Unless he has swapped out to flat top pistons then maybe around 168 or so.
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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
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Vweberdk
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/25/2017 Location: DK Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I increased my compression to all cylinders by aprox 15 psi (0,5 bar) by loosing the bolt on the rocker arm slightly.
My pistons are Standard (not flat heads) We took the heads of Yesterday to check the valves. They seems fine - but to sure we lapped them again, and did a fluid test - 100% tight. Just as the leak Down test proved. Just talked to the machine shop who did the heads. He looked at my cam card and told me to check if my intake valve was opening 2 degrees before TDC (according to cam card) Well i cant see any movement on my rocker arm at aprox 5 degrees after TDC (measured at harmonic damper) I dont really know what to make of this. I checked the alignment of the timinggear like. 20 times.? // Edited by Vweberdk - Apr/25/2017 at 3:59pm |
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shootist
AMC Addicted Joined: May/24/2012 Location: Triad, NC Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Sounds even more like the cam lobes got wiped out from the last statement. I would check your valve opening max on each intake valve comparatively. This will tell you if you have killed a lobe.
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shootist
AMC Addicted Joined: May/24/2012 Location: Triad, NC Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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I guess I should mention, the fully compressed valve should be pretty close acrossed all intake valves and all exhaust valves. It is the only thing that makes sense that you would pass leakdown check but have such a variance in compression. If the intake valve is not staying open long enough your compression number would also be lower than normal because you would be actually pulling a vacuum on the cylinder in the lower part of the stroke and thereby lowering the compression. For example the intake valve is open during the intake charge downward stroke for let's just say for example 3" of a 3.75" stroke before closing. This would mean that the volume of air pulled in could be the equivilant volume of bore and stroke. Now say on the good cylinder you are having the intake valve stay open for the full 3.75" stroke length. Now you have more air in the cylinder to compress and therefore a higher resulting compression number.
Does that help? The only other reason for variance between cylinders as drastic as you are seeing are inadequate valve seal or inadequate piston ring seal. Since you have good leak down numbers that rules out the piston rings and valve seals leaving only one thing. Duration of the valve being open and the ability of the motor to draw in the intake charge. BTW, it would also explain your increased exhaust noise because the exhaust stroke is also not opening early enough causing more pressure to build in the cylinder and rush out a smaller opening. More pressure in cylinder = bigger boom on exhaust valve opening |
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