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Aluminum Head For 4.0L

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danleym View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danleym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2013 at 5:32pm
I've seen a 4 valve set up with only two pushrods- the rocker had a bridge on the tip, and that bridge worked two valves. I don't remember what that engine was. Obviously this would be some high end stuff, and they're probably not going in that direction, but if they were I think it would be cool. Also, I think that maybe once they have the base line tooling and design done, maybe it would be possible to come out with another, more modified head that reuses a lot of the stuff from the first. I don't really know the ins and outs of head design and manufacturing, but maybe that would be a way for them to put out a higher end head but still get the sales with the cheaper one.
 
The larger valve idea is good. I know the problem with the standard head and larger valves deals with getting too close to the edge of the chamber. If you were designing the head from the ground up, you could just design the valves to be centered a little differently.
I think a cross flow would be doable, but at that point you're still getting away from a bolt on setup and more into some serious modifications (reroute fuel lines, the newer coil packs would be a problem, not to mention all the other crap that would be in the way), which would limit the number sold. Again, just a hey this would be cool thing, not that I actually expect to see it.
 
Yeah, somehow I let my thinking pigeon hole into just AMC cars and forgot about all the Jeeps out there as far as numbers sold...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2013 at 8:02pm
Ya know, I wasn't thinking when I mentioned cross-flow being reasonably easy to do. The problem is the distributor. Anything on that side of the engine would cover the dizzy! Would have to use a different type of ignition system, electronic firing three coils (wasted spark) at least, which would drive the cost up. Might not be a problem for someone willing to spend $1000+ on a cross-flow head though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Marano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2013 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by danleym danleym wrote:

I've seen a 4 valve set up with only two pushrods- the rocker had a bridge on the tip, and that bridge worked two valves. I don't remember what that engine was.


Mack?

How about going all the way, DOHC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Marano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2013 at 8:32pm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcurtis4082/3830569906/in/faves-8829172@N02/

Another example of the bridges you mentioned.   I don't recognize this engine, but it looks like CAT yellow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2013 at 8:34pm
OHC (single or dual) would be a LOT of work! The entire front of the engine would have to be redesigned -- THAT is "why not"!! Sure it can be done, that's basically what Pontiac did to the Chevy I6 to create their SOHC six in the early 60s. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Marano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2013 at 8:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2013 at 12:21am
The whole point is that would have to be a direct replacement, just like the V8 head with improvements in flow and better combustion chambers. I've always liked the older shaft rockers too, but then you would have to find a old set or build all new stuff too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryder6330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2013 at 3:50am
I realise there is alot of pipe dreaming here, but I think the best thing Edelbrock could do is make the head affordable. If they can make an alum head that is complete and cheaper than rebuilding the old iron girl than they will sell heaps.
Here in Australia, its pretty much a tie. Shipping edelbrock V8 heads and taking the stock heads to the machine shop will cost about the same.
To do this they would have to stick to a 2v head.

Besides who says any of the 'better' alternatives would be better.
When Chryco re did there Hemi, there was a reason they stuck with a old style pushrod head. Overhead cams is simply a cost saving measure from the factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2013 at 7:32am
I don't know, I enjoy my AMC i-6 engines and frankly have gotten a lot of street performance out of them.  Given limitations of the some 53 year old design and honest 160 or so HP with out much work certainly is street compatible and there are few things that might make 200 hp look good on the street and still be cost effective.
But Hesco's head at almost $2000.00 for something that seems to be on permanent back order. The fact that to the best of my knowledge there is no active class racing series that uses this engine any more and the very fact that in general, it is not a high rpm engine and while it can be made to turn tight, most of them are too long in stroke to do it reliably for too long I don't see a market for an aluminum head.
That kind of money will build a healthy turbo engine if there was a need for one.
My druthers at the moment would be to continue working on my Short Stroke 232 to see what I can get it to do, but at Hesco's price of 2 grand? I would not bother with it.
Edelbrock prices for V8 is about the same or less. I would not even be interested in overhead cam if the thing could not twist tight enough to make getting rid of pushrods worth it. And that could be done using cog belt technology I would imagine. If some one was serious about it.
I do remember when Clifford offered one. I don't know if it was Hesco's or not, but at the time it was viable expense.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bart R. Orlans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2013 at 7:57am
I was wondering what was taking them so long to do this. If there is a viable business case for them to make an aluminum Chevy 348-409 head, certainly there is one for an engine that saw exponentially higher production numbers and service life like the AMC straight six.

An improved combustion chamber, larger valves, better flowing ports and the ability to use it on any 199-258 (and maybe even 282?) engine would be great. The aluminum head would also be able to support higher compression which is a good power-making benefit and let's not forget the lighter weight would get some pounds off the nose of our cars and trucks...and that's never a bad idea.

Come on Edelbrock, let's get it done!
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