Alternator Conversion - Motorola to CS130

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   Thoght I'd share my experience here, and perhaps save other forum members a few bucks.
I got fed up with the intermittent charging of my old Motorola, so decided to swap it out for a CS130-style alternator I found on Ebay.  The Ebay ad said "one wire" and "will bolt right in."  I called the seller and asked for a specific "clocking," and to retain the CS130's remote sensing and dash light features.  Seller agreed, and said he'd include a wiring diagram/instructions.

Alternator arrived yesterday -- fins were bent on the front fan (probably damaged in shipment - easy fix); it was not clocked as I had requested; the pigtail connector was included, but had no sealing gaskets, and was wired with the sense wire to the output terminal (i.e. "one wire"); and the pigtail connector's retaining tab had been cut off, so it would no longer hold the connector securely to the regulator socket.

As most know, most Delco alternators have a 2" wide main (pivot) mounting ear or "foot."  The brackets for our early AMCs with original Motorola alternators are set up for a 1" foot.  The CS130 I got simply had 1" of the mounting foot machined off so it would fit into the stock AMC bracket.  BLUF is I could have gone to any parts store, purchased a new or rebuilt CS130 alternator, cut the mounting foot down, purchased a replacement regulator pigtail (which I did anyway, to get a good tab and sealing gaskets), and saved myself at least $50.00.  Live and learn.

Having said that, the conversion process was straightforward, and I now have a modern alternator with somewhat higher output that IMHO should be more reliable over the long run than my old Motorola -- not stock, but...     With the engine at idle (~750 rpm), the CS130 produces a rock-solid 14.6 volts at the battery terminal on the starter selenoid (the sensing location), and maintains that regardless of load -- EFI, headlights on bright, heater fan on high, wipers on high, brake lights on, radio on -- 14.6 volts at idle -- something the old Motorola never could do.

The biggest issue with the swap is that the holes on the mounting ears on the CS130 I got are about 3/8" closer together than those on the Motorola, so with the pivot bolt in, the adjustment bolt hole on the opposite ear didn't line up with the slot in the AMC bracket.  I fabbed up a small dog-leg strap, and bolted it to the back side of the adjustment ear on the alternator.  From there, it bends forward to the back side of the adjustment slot on the AMC bracket, where it flattens out for a bolt to go through and secure it in place.

A couple of issues remain:  1) the pivot hole in the CS130 is metric (9mm I think), so the OEM 3/8" bolt doesn't hold it exactly square.  Also, the machined-down "foot" has a bit of "slop" in the AMC bracket, so the alternator is not held exactly square, and the pulley is slightly out of line with the belt.  2) the pulley that came on the CS130 is the same diameter as the old one on the Motorola, but sits about 1/8" to 3/16" closer to the alternator frame, further exacerbating the out-of-alignment belt condition.

Didn't have time to take pictures, but as I will pull it back apart tonight to address the mounting/pulley issues, as well as cleaning up/painting my fabbed strap (and welding a nut to the back side to allow for easier belt adjusment), I will get some and post them then.

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whizkidder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Mar/03/2008 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2972	Post Options Post Reply Quote whizkidder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Alternator Conversion - Motorola to CS130 Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 8:56am
	Thoght I'd share my experience here, and perhaps save other forum members a few bucks. I got fed up with the intermittent charging of my old Motorola, so decided to swap it out for a CS130-style alternator I found on Ebay. The Ebay ad said "one wire" and "will bolt right in." I called the seller and asked for a specific "clocking," and to retain the CS130's remote sensing and dash light features. Seller agreed, and said he'd include a wiring diagram/instructions. Alternator arrived yesterday -- fins were bent on the front fan (probably damaged in shipment - easy fix); it was not clocked as I had requested; the pigtail connector was included, but had no sealing gaskets, and was wired with the sense wire to the output terminal (i.e. "one wire"); and the pigtail connector's retaining tab had been cut off, so it would no longer hold the connector securely to the regulator socket. As most know, most Delco alternators have a 2" wide main (pivot) mounting ear or "foot." The brackets for our early AMCs with original Motorola alternators are set up for a 1" foot. The CS130 I got simply had 1" of the mounting foot machined off so it would fit into the stock AMC bracket. BLUF is I could have gone to any parts store, purchased a new or rebuilt CS130 alternator, cut the mounting foot down, purchased a replacement regulator pigtail (which I did anyway, to get a good tab and sealing gaskets), and saved myself at least $50.00. Live and learn. Having said that, the conversion process was straightforward, and I now have a modern alternator with somewhat higher output that IMHO should be more reliable over the long run than my old Motorola -- not stock, but... With the engine at idle (~750 rpm), the CS130 produces a rock-solid 14.6 volts at the battery terminal on the starter selenoid (the sensing location), and maintains that regardless of load -- EFI, headlights on bright, heater fan on high, wipers on high, brake lights on, radio on -- 14.6 volts at idle -- something the old Motorola never could do. The biggest issue with the swap is that the holes on the mounting ears on the CS130 I got are about 3/8" closer together than those on the Motorola, so with the pivot bolt in, the adjustment bolt hole on the opposite ear didn't line up with the slot in the AMC bracket. I fabbed up a small dog-leg strap, and bolted it to the back side of the adjustment ear on the alternator. From there, it bends forward to the back side of the adjustment slot on the AMC bracket, where it flattens out for a bolt to go through and secure it in place. A couple of issues remain: 1) the pivot hole in the CS130 is metric (9mm I think), so the OEM 3/8" bolt doesn't hold it exactly square. Also, the machined-down "foot" has a bit of "slop" in the AMC bracket, so the alternator is not held exactly square, and the pulley is slightly out of line with the belt. 2) the pulley that came on the CS130 is the same diameter as the old one on the Motorola, but sits about 1/8" to 3/16" closer to the alternator frame, further exacerbating the out-of-alignment belt condition. Didn't have time to take pictures, but as I will pull it back apart tonight to address the mounting/pulley issues, as well as cleaning up/painting my fabbed strap (and welding a nut to the back side to allow for easier belt adjusment), I will get some and post them then.
	Ron Frost marne1ancient @ gmail.com 910 nine two two 0563 "There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague

KermitDRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/06/2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 2579	Post Options Post Reply Quote KermitDRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 11:55am
	Maybe not much help to you since you've already gone this route but PowerMaster sells a Delco 10si style alternator (I think they have both 100 and 130 amp versions of it) that fits in the pivot bracket perfectly. The 10si is bigger than a Motorola but at least on a six, it's easy to move the slotted bracket to fit (small bodied cars with power steering and a six will need to use a shorter belt). Matt
	1967 American wagon http://www.mattsoldcars.com

whizkidder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Mar/03/2008 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2972	Post Options Post Reply Quote whizkidder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 12:09pm
	Thanks Matt. I looked at the powermasters, and noted that some have had fitment problems on V8s with the alternator case and the oil filter. The CS130 is the same lenght front to back, and I think a bit smaller in diameter than the Motorola, so it fits in the space with no issues. Just got off the phone with the seller, and he's willing to send me a different front frame for the CS130 but I want to measure first just to be sure. I think it will work out in the end.
	Ron Frost marne1ancient @ gmail.com 910 nine two two 0563 "There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague

tsanchez Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/09/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 4303	Post Options Post Reply Quote tsanchez Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 12:20pm
	Modify the bracket so a stocker will fit, if something goes wrong and you need another any parts house will have it.


whizkidder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Mar/03/2008 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2972	Post Options Post Reply Quote whizkidder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 9:24pm
	Some picts of the install: The AMC bracket is 6 1/2" from pivot to adjustment slot (camera angle makes it look like less...): My new FleaBay alternator is just over 6" from pivot to adjustment bolt: The strap I rigged up to make it work: View from the back with the nut welded (more like melted) in place: Alternator mounted in the bracket (shows clocking, etc.): Installed. No interference issues: The seller has agreed to send me a new front frame with the correct bolt spacing, so we'll see.
	Ron Frost marne1ancient @ gmail.com 910 nine two two 0563 "There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague

whizkidder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Mar/03/2008 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2972	Post Options Post Reply Quote whizkidder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/17/2010 at 12:44pm
	The replacement front frame I got measured 6 9/16", so I had to enlarge the pivot hole by about .070" to make it fit, but it did. Happy with the end result. No magic here -- just go to any parts store and get a CS130 with the 6 9/16" measurement across the mounting ears, then cut the main foot down with a hacksaw (or other method) to 1" thick, drill out the pivot hole to 7/16", and wire it up. Edited by whizkidder - May/06/2010 at 1:32pm
	Ron Frost marne1ancient @ gmail.com 910 nine two two 0563 "There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague

RamblinAMC Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Dec/07/2008 Location: Clovis,Ca Status: Offline Points: 264	Post Options Post Reply Quote RamblinAMC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/24/2010 at 5:47pm
	I am doing this same conversion on my 73 Gremlin with a 258. My question is how do I get the light on the dash to work? The instructions say to find the wire that has power only when the ignition switch is on and that it is usually orange. But my orange wire has no power when on,but the green does. So is the green wire the one I want to connect? Any help greatly appreciated!!!
	1963 Rambler American 330 1971 Hurst Jeepster 1972 Commando 4.0 1972 Commando 258 1975 Jeep J20 401

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/24/2010 at 7:54pm
	I posted a wiring deal - I think it's in the top tech articles section perhaps.......... Green coming from what?? You need to be a bit more specific as to where they come from. the original system, the green was field, and it won't be hot with the motorola regulator removed, and you MUST remove that regulator, do not leave it in place. What instructions are you referring to? the instructions with your delco alternator can pretty much be discarded - wire colors changed over the years, even the Motorola harness used on AMC used different wire colors over the years, with these exceptions: Green from regulator to alternator field - ALWAYS Black from regulator to alternator frame/ground - ALWAYS. Yellow to ignition. Orange to dash light. See the other post I mention, it might be of help -you are going to need to do some wiring..... and remove the Motorola regulator, ignore the green and black wires on the Gremlin. PS - why are you converting a 6 cyl Gremlin? they have little power requirements, the Motorola will more than handle it........... did you get a brand new delco for under 75 bucks? Edited by billd - Oct/24/2010 at 7:57pm
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com

whizkidder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Mar/03/2008 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2972	Post Options Post Reply Quote whizkidder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/24/2010 at 9:29pm
	CS 130 has four terminals in the "plug." First one should be thick red -- used for sensing system voltage (can be hooked to alternator output for "one wire" setup). The plugs are usually labeled. Look for the terminal labeled "L" -- and hook to the OEM orange wire. Dash light is fed from ignition with key on, and "grounded" thru the orange wire to the alternator. Any time the alt is producing more than (or less than) about 1 volt different than the ignition supply to the dash light, the current flow across the filament will cause it to glow.
	Ron Frost marne1ancient @ gmail.com 910 nine two two 0563 "There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/24/2010 at 9:32pm
	http://theamcforum.com/forum/wiring-a-gm-10si-or-27-si-into-amc_topic12493.html
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