TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - After 25 yrs its out!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

After 25 yrs its out!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1415161718>
Author
Message
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 11:59am
 
 The cam in my car right now produces .700 valve lift. When the heads were setup the springs were 260 @ 1.95 and 650 @ 1.250. Other than replacing the 10 year old Jesel rockers that half were cracked when I got them, I've had no problem. The engine turns over 7500 rpm and has seen hundreds if not a thousand street miles so far.
 
 I don't know why an additional .0675 lobe lift would require anything different? I do intend to contact Harold to get his thoughts about it though. BTY, those were the springs and pressures Barry recommended and provided for that lift and rpm range. I doubt Tony will find a need or benefit of exceeding 7500 rpm? I am aware that people chasing records sich as Barry, Hemi and Aris have different requirements, but they aren't going to attempt power tours. 
 
 Merry Christmas to all, SKeown
Back to Top
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 2:50pm
 
 Okay, I just spoke with Harold and presented both my and Tony's scenario. First off he said my setup with only 250 seat and 650 over the nose is perfect for up to 8000 rpm. He said for a person who wants .800 lift to live for 24 hours it's the ramps that must be correct. He said that the cam he would recommend with that lift would have 284/292 duration and a drag racer recently completeed 350 passes with one and his last pass was his quickest. He explained that indicates the profile is easy on everything including springs.
 
 I questioned him about having that profile created on Tony's present camshaft, he said for $125.00 he would have Lunati grind it on their Landis grinder and it would be very cloose to the origional base circle (within the adjustment of the rockers). He pointed out that it must be him ordering that grind being it's his and cain't be found in their catalogue. Yes, the 250/ 650-700 spring pressures would be fine. I say limit the operation range to 7500 and max pressure to 650#'s.
 
 There's no designer that I trust their opinion more than Harold Brookshire. He owened Ultradyne Cams and has designed many cams for many company's including Comp's high energy and Lunati's Voodoo series to mention a couple.
 
 SKeown


Edited by SKeown - Dec/24/2012 at 3:22pm
Back to Top
tsanchez View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/09/2007
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 6:57pm
This cam is his lobes ground by lunati, #6 exhaust and #24 intake on a 110 intake center at 104.

See what he says about this one.

I spoke to lunati last month about pressures and they said 250 700 is about minimum.

Edited by tsanchez - Dec/24/2012 at 7:01pm
Back to Top
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 9:27pm
 
 The difference between our two cams @ .020, .050 & .200, you'rs are Ultradyne, mine are Bullet lobes. You're cam is much bigger, but with less agressive lift rates. When I had my intake off addressing an oil leak I didn't see any post lift wear on the lobes.
 
 Mine:
 297---265---186---w/.450 lobe lift = .720 w/1.6 rockers
 305---272---190---w/.450 lobe lift
 
 You'rs:
 311---278---192---w/.4544 lobe lift = .795 w/1.75 rockers
 322---286---200---w/.4267 lobe lift = .746 w/1.75 rockers
 
 I spoke to Harold again, he says you're present cam is too big and too hard on parts. He says you need his 284/292 for the tour. I ask him what do those numbers represent, he said duration at .050 lift, then the really technical stuff starts about ramps and 31* this and that. That's when I just shut down and take his word for it.
 
 SKeown




Edited by SKeown - Dec/24/2012 at 9:53pm
Back to Top
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/25/2012 at 7:25pm
 
 
Originally posted by stickshifter stickshifter wrote:

Originally posted by SKeown SKeown wrote:

 
  but if the car caint make it to the track the tour is hopeless.
 
 I would think that those who have experienced the trials that a serious street/strip car presents may have some feel for what Tony is likely to encounter, and possibly how to avoid it.
 


I agree.  But it is my opinion that having spring pressure too low for the cam for the racing in order to compensate for the valve train hardware is the wrong approach.  If the current hardware can not survive the road trip with the proper spring pressure for racing, Tony really has just a few options:
1) Run a smaller cam that requires less spring pressure
2) Upgrade the hardware to survive the racing and the road trip
3) Change springs before and after each race event.
4) Don't really race it and keep it below 4000rpm with weaker springs
 
 Only changing springs would allow one to have his cake and eat it too. There is one more option that wouldn't be as involved, switching to very low ratio rockers during the drive time. While on the road the engine speed would be kept under 3500 rpm, so you could actually switch to 1:1 ratio rockers during that time. Some builders resort to that instead of removing the inner springs during flat tapit breakin.
 
 These would reduce the open spring pressure by about 20% and still provide .555/.590 valve lift without altering the cam's duration or spring seat pressure: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1004bl
 
 SKeown


Edited by SKeown - Dec/26/2012 at 12:00am
Back to Top
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 1:21pm
 
 I contacted Harland Sharp about low ratio rockers specific for AMC's. They can make them in 1.4 ratio for $290.00. That would relieve quiet a bit of stress off the valvetrain during the highway portion of the tour over 1.75 ratio rockers. Making the switch wouldn't be that dificult, and would require rockers, studs and guideplates. If a person started with say 700 open pressure, taking 100#'s off may allow a participant to finish whereas they may not otherwise. If a .35 reduction in rocker ratio doesn't seem adequate, then surely there's a way to reduce it even more. 
 
 If you're wondereing why I've sunk my teeth into this subject, it's because I was leaving to join Tony in Dallas when I got word he was turning back. With the gained experience I feel that AMC can produce a good showing during the next attempt. I may even give it a go some day myself? It's apparent that gnarly drag racing type valvetrains aren't reliable enough for such an event.
 
 SKeown 
Back to Top
tsanchez View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/09/2007
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 1:33pm
True but people are going to still take them on drag week, break dung, fix it and move on. My issue was I failed to bring enough spares. I am going to look into a cam specific to drag week for my car, I think the current cam still needs the spring pressure I have. If I can get one with smoother lobes and can reduce springs that would be good, changing rockers is a lot of work because of the shaft setup, if I had some 1.3 ratios shaft ones made it may be worth it but I am stil a low maintenance kind of guy LOL I dont want to do more work. If it doesnt sound horrible I dont even adjust valves.
 
 
Like I said before, people broke springs, t&d rockers, Jesel rockers, roller lifters, transmissions(mutiple times on same car even) rearends, wiped out front suspentions, killed heads/gaskets and pistons. Fuel pumps burned wires, failed themselves and tires blew. Its a m effer of a trip, and preparing is the key, I was not prepared  last year and was fortunate I made it as far as I did. I dont expect to not break anything next year but I will be more prepared and the car will make good passes.
Back to Top
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 8:21pm
 
 These may allow you to retain you're present cam and avoid replacing failed parts at inconvienent times: http://www.crower.com/break-in-rockers-ford-v8-289-302-351w-1-3-7-16.html
 
 How many track events along the way?
 
 SKeown


Edited by SKeown - Dec/26/2012 at 8:39pm
Back to Top
tsanchez View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/09/2007
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2012 at 6:47pm
Needed a tool to remove valve springs on car and LSM etc were expensive and had to be modified to work anyway so I made one today real quick.
 
Back to Top
tsanchez View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/09/2007
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/31/2012 at 5:19pm

OIl pans back on, and rockers adjusted, had to clearance some pushrod holes but otherwise ok. Rotating torque with all valves adjusted is about 60ft lbs, not bad.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1415161718>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2012 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or