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Adding Oil Filter 196.5 1962 rambler |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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...and those steel lines are just 3/8" thread inverted flare lines, aka brake lines. i bend 'em by hand all the time, slowly, big radiuses (radii :-) and you can get 'em at even AutoZone.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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80% as effective might be right. As I said, I couldn't see any difference in the bearings between engines with partial and full flow filters, that were torn down due to normal wear (high mileage), not "blown" engines. Not a scientific measurement, but a good indicator. Only tore one blown engine apart with partial flow (196 L-head) but it had like new bearings -- didn't run long after a rod broke, apparently due to a nut on a rod cap not tightened properly (nut was gone on broke rod, but bolt still in one piece). I'd have thought it was more like 50-60% as effective, but the oil does "turn over" a lot in a running engine...
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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turn-over is probably the key to success.
at fleet-scale, full filtration may catch a small percentage of problems where some one-off junk circulates around the engine waiting to get filtered out. but today for one well-maintained old engine, its probably fine. and if it's even close to 80% as effective, it's unlikely to be worth the effort switch over.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9060 |
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I thought I would resurrect this thread because I found the article citing references below attesting to the capabilities of a bypass oil filter like AMC used in many of the sixes prior to 1964. The text in italics below is quoted directly from an article in Auto Restorer magazine (August 2015) by Sam Chase who owns a 1950's Dodge and who was trying to dispel myths about the systems in his car, like the bypass filter and the six volt electrical system.
I found several studies conducted by automotive and filtration engineers indicating that the old bypass systems are pretty effective. The best one was done by the Fram Corp. back in the early 1950's when Fram actually made one of the better filters on the market. The studies showed that the typical bypass system turns a 5-quart crankcase every 20 to 35 minutes, resulting in an overall "cleanliness" efficiency factor of about 85% (where 100 represents 100% of filtered oil reaching moving parts 100% of the time). They also showed that full-flow systems are only about 92% efficient because the full-flow is a restriction filter requiring a system bypass for pressure spikes. Those spikes may be caused by fast acceleration or at start-up when the engine is cold and the oil is too thick to circulate freely. At those time, the filter is completely bypassed and you get unfiltered oil circulating through the engine. Of course with modern low-viscosity and multi-viscosity motor oil the spikes above may be less frequent, skewing the data somewhat. As Rod Serling said: For your consideration (or something like that.) Joe |
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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thanks for that Joe. nothing like actual facts in a story. that plus today's great oils, and the infinitely better car hobbiest cars get than past decades' daily beaters, and partial filtration is just fiiiiiiiine.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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MARTINSR
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/08/2009 Location: SF bay area Ca Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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Brian |
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1959 Rambler American daily driver. And I mean EVERY SINGLE day.
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1950 Dodge
AMC Fan Joined: Jan/30/2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Just saw this thread. I am the Sam Chase who wrote the Auto Restorer Article (referred to in this thread), and I have done a considerable amount of research on this subject. I was very concerned when I bought my 1950 Dodge 15 years ago, as I have read several postings on internet classic car forums expressing the opinion that the bypass only systems found on older cars are ineffective. Many are so concerned about this that they have gone to the expense of converting their engine blocks to allow for installation of a full flow system. The several studies I have read on effectiveness of bypass only vs. full flow only systems (studies conducted by both automotive engineers and hydraulics/filtration engineers) have convinced me that the bypass only systems are very effective, even if not quite as good overall as full flow systems.
Depending
on running oil pressure and bypass circuit oil line diameter, bypass filters
take 10-15% of oil flow from the main block oil line into a bypass circuit,
filter it, and return the cleaned oil to the pan, while 85%-90% of the oil goes
directly to the engine’s moving parts. Because bypass filters are not “restriction”
filters, there is no harm done to the engine if the filter clogs up. It is therefore possible to fit a filter that
removes much smaller contaminants than a full flow filter does. Modern full flow filters trap down to 30-40
microns, and bypass filters can trap down to 3-5 microns. A
clogged full flow filter can completely starve an engine of oil. That is why all full flow filters have a
built in bypass valve that opens if the pressure differential between the input
and output gets too high. In full flow
systems, all the oil goes through the filter before it gets to any of the
engine’s moving parts, but because of more porous filtration media, the filter
does not filter as well as less porous bypass filters. On
pre-1960 Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto 6’s, the bypass filter oil return line return
line goes through an oil pressure relief valve so that if pressure is
too low, the flow through the filter is restricted or shut off. This insures that there will always be adequate
oil pressure when the engine is at hot idle. On my bypass filter equipped 1950
Dodge Coronet there is full return flow at just over 10 lbs. pressure, which
means that oil flows through the filter about 99% of the time. When
full flow filter by-pass valves open, and they frequently do, all the contaminant
that the filter trapped is dumped back into your engine. Bypass valves typically open when the engine
is cold (excessive pressure due to thick oil), during full-throttle
acceleration (immediate pressure spike), and/or when the amount of dirt in the
filter creates too much resistance to oil flow.
Because the amount of oil pressure required to push oil through the
filter increases as its service time increases and you don’t know how much dirt
is in your filter at any point in time, full flow filters should always be
changed at every oil change interval. Full
flow filter quality varies greatly. Many filter brands have inferior operating
bypass valves and perform poorly. Under
that condition, the full flow filter may have a filtering efficiency rate much
lower than that of a bypass-only system installed on the same engine. The
bottom line is full flow and bypass systems are different. One is not better than the other under all
operating conditions. Studies performed
by filtration engineers from the 1950’s generally conclude that bypass only
systems are about 85% effective (where 100 represents a “clean” oil running condition
100% of the time), while the full flow systems are about 92% effective (due to
higher filtration media porosity and filter bypassing). That
said, bypass only systems are at a disadvantage whenever there is an immediate
high-volume contamination of the oil supply, such as someone dumping sand into
the oil inlet, or driving the car in an intense dust storm without an air
filter installed. In those situations,
it would take a bypass system 40-60 minutes to remove the dirt, whereas the
full flow system would get 98% of it on one pass. In my opinion, the possibility of those
situations is extremely remote, and that coupled with only a 7% difference in
overall filtering effectiveness is not enough to justify the expense of
converting a classic car engine block from bypass to full flow. Change the oil at 2000-2500 mile intervals,
change the bypass filter every other oil change, and be confident that your
bypass filter-equipped classic car is not suffering because it lacks a full flow
system. |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I remember I used Fram Pb50. From this link there are lots of others that fit.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Lots that fit, but local parts stores aren't likely to have them in stock unless they cater to a lot of industrial customers. The filter for the 196 doesn't fit any other automotive applications (not modern/popular ones, anyway). Fits a whole slew of industrial engines though, one being refer trailer motors, so larger truck stops may have them in stock. When I was running a 196 (OHV, 63 American, 14 years as a daily driver) I just ordered 3-4 at a time, changed oil about every six months (I averaged 6-7K a year, put about 5K a year on my motorcycle...).
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Frank Swygert
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I rode bikes too but after surviving a couple of collisions with people doing left hand turns in front of me it was enough.
When I bought the Rambler the guy told me he wouldn't be afraid to take that car anywhere. I found it to be quite reliable too and got some decent miles out of it before parts began to wear out. A couple of paint jobs and many parts later the car is still with me. That old 196 I found to be as reliable as pretty well any other engine out there. Edited by vinny - Jan/31/2020 at 9:29am |
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