TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Transmission & Drivetrain
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - A833 in a '64 american?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

A833 in a '64 american?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
330inthemorning View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Mar/25/2019
Location: AZ
Status: Online
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 330inthemorning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A833 in a '64 american?
    Posted: Apr/14/2019 at 2:00pm
i have a 195.6 3-speed OD in my american wagon.  i'm considering upgrading to a 199 out of a '69 rambler. i really want to make this car more drivable, but keep it an MPG miser. 

i hear said that the T-5 out of some mustangs is a very easy swap.  i also know jeeps used the chrysler (new process) A833, but probably with the later engines.

i've searched, and it doesn't seem this is a trans that anyone favors for their ramblers.  i happen to have an A833OD out of a mopar F-body (short tail).  

i'm wondering if anyone has ever done such a swap.  i really want to find a T-5, but this is what i have, so if i can make it work, i may.  definitely need to weigh out the labor and cost involved.  

thanks.
Back to Top
mixed up View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jun/16/2015
Location: Monroe mich
Status: Offline
Points: 1008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mixed up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2019 at 11:31pm
one thing because the 64-65 were shorter front end than the 66-69 and the 199 232 are long than the 195 for the engine bay yes it will fit but fire wall may need cutting or the radiator might need to be put in front of the baffles I put a 232 in mine at first and cut the firewall then I went v8
69 amx 290 auto
65 220 290 4spd
80 ford fairmont
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: los angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 2784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2019 at 11:50pm
i have not done this -- but as mixed up says, the '64's are short up front. the 199 is supposed to bolt in OK but you need a short-shaft water pump. you migt have to notch the lower portion of the valance below the radiator so that ou can move it forward (flip the brackets on the radiator). i've had to do this last on to get a 232 in 1 195.6 aluminum OHV car, but that was a classic.

today, you can buy cheap remote electric water pumps with far more capacity than needed. with 3/4" hose nipples, there's a BMW pump available for $150. i have one here i'm helping af riend install on a 2-rotor wankel. i made a controller for that but you could just wire it to ignition with a relay.

then you'd need to make a blockoff plate with a 3/4" 90-degree hose nipple. a fairly simple flat plate with tapped hole for the nipple. put the pump anywhere you want. but you'd gain 4 - 6" of front clearance and find a belt for alternator only.

i'm running an all-electronic cooling system with a Ford pickup intercooler pump as my main pump. it's more than adequate, and you can buy 'em at Autozone.

hoever i'm crazy and am perfectly fine with non-standard fixes....

1961 roadster american
195.6 OHV, modded
T5z, 3.42:1 mustang axle
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 15754
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/15/2019 at 7:27am
To put a 199/232/258 in a 64-65 American:
1. Move the radiator forward. Do this by taking it to a shop and having the side mounts flipped by moving from side to side (left on right, etc.). Then just reinstall the radiator. There is a cover plate that goes on the top support between the hood latch and radiator that has to be removed.

2. Get a 65 American 232 or a 71-86 CJ-5 (NOT CJ-7!!) water pump. You will also need the water pump pulley, which will be harder to find. You might be able to find a suitable depth and diameter pulley from a salvage yard from some other make and model. Diameter can vary some, just has to be close. Depth has to be correct for the V-belt to stay on though. You could use longer bolts and spacers to align a flatter pulley. Heck, the 196 water pump pulley might work, I haven't tried, but it should be close.

3. Use the newer six motor mounts with 10 or 11 gauge 2"x3" rectangular tubing between the crossmember and engine. The tubing needs to be about 4-5" long. Drill the tubing to fit the motor mounts and bolt on, with the tubing parallel to the crossmember, the lower edge even with the rubber mounts. Then lower the engine in place and mark where the holes in the crossmember for the original 196 mounts hit the tubing. drill and tap for a 3/8" FINE THREAD bolt. Use a lock washer and lock-tite on the bolt. 10 or 11 gauge is ~1/8" thick, just enough for fine threads, not enough for coarse threads. If you prefer weld a piece of 1/4" or 1/8" plate inside the tubing for a bit more grip, but I've run a 4.6L stroker like this with no issues for many years, currently have my hopped up 4.0L installed this way. You should have about 1/4" between crossmember and oil pan. If not, you can shim the tubing pieces up with plates or fender washers between the tubing and CM. I wouldn't use regular washers due to the smaller area.

The electric water pump idea is a good one, and Tom has proven it in use. This isn't a standard water pump turned by an electric motor like the drag racers use, but a complete replacement. Good enough for a BMW factory install, good enough for anything! Then you just run a short belt from the crank to the alternator. If running more than just an alternator things would be a bit more complicated, and you might need an idler mounted on the water pump block-off plate.


Frank Swygert
Back to Top
330inthemorning View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Mar/25/2019
Location: AZ
Status: Online
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 330inthemorning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/15/2019 at 8:51am
thanks to all who responded.  that answers the first half of my question.  now, the A833...
Confused
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 15754
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 5:57am
Any trans that was used on a 4.0L will bolt right up to a 72 or later 232/258. That leaves the 64-71 199/232 (and 71 only 258) out.

I don't know if the A833 was used in any Jeeps though.I can't find a reference listing it. The only four speeds that come up are the  T18, T176/177/178, SR4 (only 80-82 in the CJ), and T4 (successor to the SR4, a bit stronger). A list is here:

You will find some five speeds also. The BA10/5 is fine for a car, but wasn't strong enough for a 4.0L off roading a bit. That's why Jeepers deride it, but I've known a couple people with street vehicles that never had a problem with it at all, at least one with well over 100K on it. Never driven real hard though, in a Comanche used to pull a john boat and light hauling. The AX15 is the strongest, but hard to find as Jeepers like it. Best bet is a early Fox body Mustang T-5.
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
6PakBee View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 3574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 7:54am
I didn't know that the A833's of any flavor were used in Jeeps.  It's just not an off-road transmission.  As to using in an American, I can't give you any specifics but just thinking about it gives me the heebie-jeebies.  My advice to you would be to sell the A833 and get something that has a proven track record as a swap candidate.  I would be the first to admit that virtually anything can be done with enough time, money, and determination but I fear at the end of this road you'll be asking yourself "What was I thinking".  Just my opinion.
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Back to Top
330inthemorning View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Mar/25/2019
Location: AZ
Status: Online
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 330inthemorning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/19/2019 at 9:32am
seems as though the best course of action would be to off this and opt for a T-5 if i ever went that route.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.062 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or