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A/C in 70 Javelin

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pit crew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2013 at 9:16am
Depending on how "stock" you want it to look you do have the option of sending the receiver/dryer out to have the desiccant replaced. I believe the going price is around $100 or so.

73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dltowers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2013 at 9:49am
I have a 1974 Javelin with the one year/one model condensor and drier system.
I recently purchased the NOS condensor from the same vendor in Arizona and it is an exact match to my original condensor, it is stamped with factory part numbers and date coded.
As far as the drier, I had to have my original drier rebuilt by a company in Fort Worth, Texas.
Original Owner, 1974 Javelin:
360ci,2v,727TC. Motorola Multiplex with 8-Track.
G4 Plum exterior with 421Q Black Uganda Interior. Purchased on July 16, 1974 from Hooker AMC, Sherman, TX for $4500.20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2013 at 9:44am
72Javelin,  you are so correct on that one year only 74 condenser.  It's bolted into the 70 Javelin body and it fits like it was made for it. The drier is another question.  dltowers mentions in his post that he had his rebuilt. I found one I thought was for the 74 Javelin but the bracket isn't welded to it in the correct location. The inlet to the drier is sized correctly to the condenser and it appears to have a -4 outlet connection. Oh well I'll keep searching. I've tried to fit the after market drier into the system, but with the inlet/outlet on top of the drier 180 degrees from each other it's difficult to integrate it into the system and make it look good. I do like the sight glass in it though.
 
pitcrew,  I've contacted one of those companies that rebuilds driers and I'm back to leaning toward having them rebuild my original 70 drier to fit the 74 condenser with new O-ring style fittings and a -6 outlet which they tell me they can easily do. If I knew where to find the dessicant, I'd try doing it myself.
 
Armand


Edited by White70JavelinSST - May/14/2014 at 11:51am
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dltowers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2013 at 11:02am

The company that rebuilt my drier charged $99.50 plus postage. They are located in Fort Worth, Texas.  They rebuilt the drier and re-painted it, and it looks brand new. Turn around was about 1 week. If you need the company contact imformation send send me a PM and I will send it to you.

Original Owner, 1974 Javelin:
360ci,2v,727TC. Motorola Multiplex with 8-Track.
G4 Plum exterior with 421Q Black Uganda Interior. Purchased on July 16, 1974 from Hooker AMC, Sherman, TX for $4500.20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OkieJav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/06/2015 at 9:23pm
Which vintage air system did you end up going with and what were the results? I have a 69 javelin and I'm days away from taking the car to a vintage air dealer to get an estimate.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/06/2015 at 10:06pm
Vintage Air does not seem to have a package for AMC applications. So I installed the following:

http://www.vintageair.com/2014catalog/Pages%20from%202014%20VintageAir%20Cat%20rev%208-15%2051.pdf

A period correct under-dash unit on the passenger side of the dash board, the reproduction of the "mark IV". Why that one? It fit in the space that was available. As to the engine I found the OEM 1970 parts with the exception of the idler pulley which I have yet to find and then used and adapter for the latest compressor. As it is 1970 A/C parts the belt is the same one called out.
The unit is not completely in as to health problems at the present, but the parts are installed.

The condenser is one picked form their catalog and is mounted as the directions indicated with no problems in front of the Radiator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/07/2015 at 7:26am
So your going to make the swap over to our friend 134A ,not the greatest stuff in the world but it will work. When we started converting older cars that had the wonderful R12 to the new stuff we were told to use 80% of what the car took in R12. After a few years they started tell us to use 90% .
Now are you going to use a machine that can be set to do it automatically or are you using 1. lb cans (these are only 12oz) and a set of hand gauges ?Depending on which way you go could make the world of a difference .If you are under or over by 1 oz on the charge your vent temp will be widely effected .
You will need to take into consideration ambient air temp ,head pressure ,High and Low side,compressor temp and condenser temp at both corners .You can google 134A ambient temp charts. Are you installing electric fans or using the stock one? Air flow is a huge factor .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/07/2015 at 8:27am
I'm not sure today what the average temperature is Quincy Mass is going to be, but here in Phoenix it is going to be over 100 degrees. This is the time of year when one third of the year, that is 4 months out of twelve it will be some where in the triple digits. A/C is a must if you wish to enjoy your ride. R12 became pretty much un-available 12 years ago and R134 was the way to go.
I changed ALL of my cars out to R134 about that time and every AMC car I have owned was an R 134 conversion.
Despite the "by the book" method of getting it done, the methodology used by many including myself was to evacuate the R12 and pressurize with R134. And for a variety of reasons, it has proven to be a non-issue and quite reliable to have done so. This was done using the small cans and a simple gauge to read pressures with.
Practically speaking my experience with having done so for some reason R134 has done a better job of cooling the car with temperatures over 100 degrees. Such as it will be today and has been for a month or so now. The down side is at stop lights, the A/C output does indeed warm up a bit, but it is not a problem in general and as soon as the car begins to move it cools back down.
This is a conversion from existing conditions. Old AMC cars have been run for years with R12 and the hoses are impregnated with the chemicals and no longer cause a problem with outgassing. What is changed to convert from R12 to R134. I've changed nothing but the R12.
A Vintage A/C package will be R134. So nothing to worry about.
I have a Hornet that will use the dealer installed under dash unit and condenser, a GM Muffin style compressor, and line adapter from Vintage air to get the schrader taps for R134 and to adapt to the old style hose connections. A Second Hornet will just use 134 when done.
While this procedure is frowned on by A/C specialists, others in this area have used it regularly with no problems. And so have I. For what this is worth.
My Chrysler T&C pulls the inside temperature down to livable with no problems what so ever, but it was designed to use R134

Edited by uncljohn - Jul/07/2015 at 8:30am
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/07/2015 at 8:50am
Donno, I thought you can reuse your condenser if it is not damaged, even if you upgrade to 134a. If not, I'll have to customize my air components to go with my Sanden setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/07/2015 at 4:49pm
The only thing you need to change to convert is the dryer. I don't know if vacuuming the system gets it out of the dryer or not, it might, but I've always changed the dryer. It has a desiccant in it that holds any water in the system, so it probably  doesn't hold any refrigerant. It does get water logged over time, but then again vacuuming the system may rejuvenate the dryer also.  I'm not AC expert. The dryer is relatively cheap and easy to replace (unless you're dead set on 100% original appearance), and I was advised to change it when I switched my system over.

I'm running a 2006 Sanden compressor (original 1988 Jeep type -- the compressor that came with my Jeep motor died around 2005-2006), a late 1990's Chrysler LS condensor, and the original 1963 evaporator and expansion valve. It cools fine, but does struggle a bit over 95 degrees outside. That's mainly because I need a bigger radiator though. I'm running a non-AC radiator, and engine temp starts to creep up over 95 outside temp when running AC for a long time. Radiator can't handle the load. Without AC on it runs 180-185 with a 195 t-stat. Turn AC on in the high 80s and it may run 195-205. Get in the low 90s and it will run 5-10 degrees warmer, so can't run it in a lot of city driving (when you want it most!). Bigger radiator will solve that!! Got it, just got to get it in... Been dealing with that for a long time, just don't drive it that much in July and August down here (central South Carolina).

I'm running a product called ES-12. It's a propane/butane blend. I've run R-134a in it before, cools about the same with either, but I don't get the fluctuation with pressure (compressor rpm) as John described... or at least I haven't noticed. It charges the same as R-134a by pressure, and that's the way I charge it. With the mix of components I have I just about have to! I've considered changing the expansion valve for one that is calibrated for R-134a, but I'm having no issues with the original. ES-12 is supposedly a bit closer to R-12 in characteristics than R-134a, so that might be the difference. If John changed the expansion valve (R-134a molecules are smaller than R-12) he may not have that fluctuation.

The molecule size is generally why the hoses should be changed. I had to have custom hoses with o-rings on one end, flares on the other, and of course custom lengths, so I have barrier hoses. I never heard of the hoses being saturated with refrigerant and oil and not leaking because of that, but it does make sense and John has been running his with no loss (or very little loss) for some time. I don't like running 200-300 psi in 30+ year old dry hoses myself, so I recommend changing them if you plan on keeping the car for any length of time.
Frank Swygert
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