The AMC Forum : 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? http://theamcforum.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; The AMC Forum : Jeeps and Eagle 4x4 fun. : 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? Sun, 19 May 2013 13:30:13 +0000 Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:26:38 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.03 360 theamcforum.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=36877 The AMC Forum http://theamcforum.com/forum/http://www.theamcforum.com/forum/skin_images_amc/forumheader.png http://theamcforum.com/forum/ 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : It's a bit tricky because... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post383359.html#383359 Author: billd
Subject: 36877
Posted: Aug/09/2012 at 2:26pm

It's a bit tricky because of clearances - the engine on an eagle sits to the side a bit - isn't dead-center. But otherwise, if I had another SX/4, I'd definitely shoot for trying to put a 360 in it.
You can't do it without fabrication, some cutting, moving things around, and being a bit creative, but it's not as hard as some other projects. I'd find it easier than some other engine swaps in the end.

The differential DOES hang from the engine mounts - not the engine, so that makes it a bit easier, that's not, IMO, the hardest trick.

Exhaust could also be an issue. There's barely enough room for the 258 exhaust.
You can see in the prior page my photos of the 4.0 I dropped in - how I had to rework the 4.0 exhaust (I could have made it a LOT easier by re-aiming the outlet of the header when it was cut off for the tube repair!)
The differential hangs from the engine mount brackets, not so much the engine itself. It's just stabilized by the bracket that does bolt to the engine - to keep the pinion from twisting up or down, but the real weight is on the mount brackets.

I don't doubt what you say about the Alaskan Eagles, however, that little transmission used behind the iron puke is a piece of crap, it's a LIGHTER version even of the transmission used behind the 258! I can't imagine putting a 6 in front of that cheap transmission, let alone an 8 with any guts.
Then there's the differentials - if you've worked on an Eagle front differential, you'd really worry about driving it very fast or with any real load. They are light with nothing for bearings to keep the stub axles and flanges from wobbling as they spin.

To put anything in an Eagle to replace the 4, you must replace the whole front cross-member. The 4 sits on ledges and very long bolts go straight down through the brackets on the engine, through rubber pads, then through the ledge on the cross-member, etc.
We are considering a 6 for my son's car, so I'm collecting parts - cross-member, a decent transmission and so on.
The 4 cly SX/4 is a radically different car than the 6 cyl SX/4 in a lot of ways, not just 2 fewer cylinders. The 6 has room for a radiator coolant recovery so has a sealed system, the 4 does not as they had to put the cruise control on the driver side, taking that space. The radiator is a toy - tiny and different, the transmission is a lightweight taking a different pan gasket than other 998/904s, the converter is a real toy, cross-members, springs, electrical system, A/C, throttle, a lot of differences.
AMC had to spend some $ to be able to use the GM 4, I have to wonder if they found it worth it in the end.

Here's how tight the left side can be....










]]> Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:26:38 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post383359.html#383359 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : Thank you everyone. I had... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post383358.html#383358 Author: greasygt
Subject: 36877
Posted: Aug/09/2012 at 2:25pm

Thank you everyone. I had an opportunity awhile back to get a SX/4. but it no longer exists. But I now know that it is doable. Steve.]]> Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:25:37 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post383358.html#383358 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : Old thread brought back... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post383355.html#383355 Author: 17tamx
Subject: 36877
Posted: Aug/09/2012 at 2:00pm

Oldthread brought back to life. Just a side note.

 

InAnchorage, AK back when the SX/4 was brand new with the GM 2.5 4 cylinder IronDuke and auto transmission an AMC tech named Norm Worthington created twohotrods for the AMC dealership (Denali Motors). He installed GM 5.7’s in placeof the 2.5’s since they bolted up to the original auto transmission. He told methat the hardest part was fabricating the mounts for the front differential andhe said that it wasn’t very difficult at all. He said that they performed verywell both in snow and on pavement.

 

The DealersWife drove one and the Sales Manager drove the other until they were both soldas demo models. I bought a 79 AMX 304 4spd in Anchorage that had been theDealers Wife personal car and she was my customer at Anchorage Nissan AMC afterher husband lost the AMC franchise.

 

Inever did see either of the two cars during the 11 years I lived in Anchoragebut several of the AMC/Jeep tech’s I worked with confirmed that Norm built thetwo of them right there in the Service Shop at Denali Motors.

]]> Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:00:52 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post383355.html#383355 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : greasygt wrote:Presently I... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post382910.html#382910 Author: Hypereagle
Subject: 36877
Posted: Aug/07/2012 at 3:40pm

Originally posted by greasygt greasygt wrote:

Presently I don't know what size the motor is in it. But if its the 6 what would need to be changed other than the cross member?, and if its the 4, could it be done without cutting and welding?  Thanks Steve

Go into the eagles nest forum and you can see the mounts that I fabricate for AMC V8 s. cutting and welding are needed but is fairly minimal. For oil filters I did use a Pacer filter housing. A remote will be easier to use.]]> Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:40:36 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post382910.html#382910 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : greasygt wrote:Presently I... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post382908.html#382908 Author: Hypereagle
Subject: 36877
Posted: Aug/07/2012 at 3:39pm

Originally posted by greasygt greasygt wrote:

Presently I don't know what size the motor is in it. But if its the 6 what would need to be changed other than the cross member?, and if its the 4, could it be done without cutting and welding?  Thanks Steve

Go into the eagles nest forum and you can see the mounts that I fabricate for AMC V8 s. cutting and welding are needed but is fairly minimal. For oil filters I did use a Pacer filter housing. A remote will be easier to use.]]> Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:39:31 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post382908.html#382908 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : My 390V8 AWD AUTOMATIC SX/4... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338310.html#338310 Author: nickleone
Subject: 36877
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 2:49pm

My 390V8 AWD  AUTOMATIC SX/4 Pro Rally car had the eagle crossmember.  The front differential was hung from the crossmember.  New motor mounts were fabbed to fit the V8 to the cross member.  The auto trans softened the blow to the drive train.  I do not think the eagle 4 or 5 speed will stay together.  The previous owner of the car had manual trans problems with a hot 6.  He rebuilt the trans after every race.  I would recomend the 727 behind the 360. Suspension wise the fronts were 400# springs which kept the car off the crossmember.  The rears needed traction bars to keep the axle from winding up and bending the leafs.
 
Have fun,
Nick
]]> Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:49:40 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338310.html#338310 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : AMC instigator wrote:I... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338227.html#338227 Author: billd
Subject: 36877
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 7:43am

Originally posted by AMC instigator AMC instigator wrote:

I have made a couple Eagle v-8 cars, it is not too bad, but as you can see from what Billd shows you, there is work to do and fabrication involved. As he suggested the crossmemeber for the Eagle is not replaceable with a std v-8 Gremlin or such, you have to "make" the Eagle one work. Along with the differential brackets that have to be built, the v-8 small car manifolds work good, but the best set is from a 70[log style dog leg port] on both sides, or the 81 and up Jeep driver side, 78-79 v-8 pacer driver side and the small call pass side, or 75 and up all model pass side [still the log style]. This allows the clearence for ex and the bracketry. It can be done, fabbing and work, but is not a bolt in deal. Thinking out of the box is needed alot of the time. Hope that helps, SH


THANK YOU for that much better explanation. I thought someone here had done it. I know I've seen a couple somewhere.
The nice thing about the Eagle is that you can do what I did.... Drop the ENTIRE drivetrain out the bottom. take a lot of photographs, measure in a lot of places point to point, take notes, and you can fabricate quite a bit with the drive-train on dollies on the floor. You could even test fit as well, as rolling the assembly under the car and lowering the car down onto it is really simple.
In fact, so simple I did it one-handed while my arm was in a sling after surgery to have my bicep reattached. I'm left handed and it was my left arm. If I could do the mock-up, and slide it under and get the car aligned for a test fit like that, seems anyone here could do it.

Good info on the exhaust fitment, too. There's a problem on the left side since the differential and driveshaft and t-case are in the way on the left, that's why the exhaust pipe makes a sudden right turn under the bell housing, then back along the right side.

OH - anyone putting a V8 in an Eagle needs to keep in mind - these are the 15s, not the 20s turning the wheels, so beware.......... They are not heavy differentials.
But in my opinion, will still take a lot of load.
The V8 will be a bit heavier as well, not sure what that will do to the front springs. I know I had to put a bit heavier springs in my car, but the fronts were AMC 6 cyl springs I had in it - WAY too wimpy! The Eagle comes factory with V8 springs under the front to support the weight of the drive-train.


Edited by billd - Feb/14/2012 at 7:46am]]> Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:43:26 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338227.html#338227 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : Here is a site with more help... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338222.html#338222 Author: cmyamc
Subject: 36877
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 7:25am

Here is a site with more help with the eagles.
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/]]> Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:25:43 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338222.html#338222 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : I have made a couple Eagle v-8... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338172.html#338172 Author: AMC instigator
Subject: 36877
Posted: Feb/13/2012 at 10:49pm

I have made a couple Eagle v-8 cars, it is not too bad, but as you can see from what Billd shows you, there is work to do and fabrication involved. As he suggested the crossmemeber for the Eagle is not replaceable with a std v-8 Gremlin or such, you have to "make" the Eagle one work. Along with the differential brackets that have to be built, the v-8 small car manifolds work good, but the best set is from a 70[log style dog leg port] on both sides, or the 81 and up Jeep driver side, 78-79 v-8 pacer driver side and the small call pass side, or 75 and up all model pass side [still the log style]. This allows the clearence for ex and the bracketry. It can be done, fabbing and work, but is not a bolt in deal. Thinking out of the box is needed alot of the time. Hope that helps, SH ]]> Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:49:03 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338172.html#338172 360 iin a SX/4 = how difficult? : The 4 will take a whole lot more... http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338164.html#338164 Author: billd
Subject: 36877
Posted: Feb/13/2012 at 10:25pm

The 4 will take a whole lot more work. The engine mounts for the 4 are totally different, the crossmember, transmission, a lot. The engine mounts for the iron duke are really weird, the engine sits on rubber donuts and there are bolts sticking up through, not at all like you think of with the 6 or 8.
You'll have to make supports for the front differential, you'll have to offset the engine to the right a bit, exhaust will be harrowing.
The crossmember is unique to the Eagle - no other AMC car crossmember will bold in directly.
Here is how the right side of the differential is hung:
 
Left side - the differential is hung from a bracket by the motor mount, and kept from twisting by a bracket on the block going to the pinion area - here I had to make a new one due to exhaust clearances
 
Normal brackets that hold differential on engine
 
The Eagle crossmember - for the 6
 
Differential in place hanging from engine
 
Right side - differential in place, hub where axle half-shaft bolts on
 
Another view of cross-member
 
 
Putting engine back in
 
 
]]> Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:25:21 +0000 http://theamcforum.com/forum/360-iin-a-sx-4-how-difficult_topic36877_post338164.html#338164