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73 Javelin heater connections

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 12:54pm
I take it mine is the only non-AC 73 Javelin that AMC ever produced as no one has seen, worked on, or has experience with non-AC 73s.
Ironic as I want to eventually put AC in this car!

Anyway - thanks as that gives me an idea where to look...... and I'm trying to decide just how far to go with this round of work on the car. Almost all of the dash parts need replacement, the right kick panel is busted up, HUGE screws were run through the trim and into the dash structure meaning I can't put the correct smaller screws in place because the screws the PO put in are likely #10 or 12 (not far from quarter inch)
So I have to remove enough parts to close up the holes in the dash structure so I can mount the trim properly, find a replacement right kick panel, replace the center "pod" as the top is busted out where a light would have gone (or a delete plate, whatever) - there's so much broken and so many huge wrong screws, the heater core is busted, my wife wants heat in the car.......... so not sure where to stop!
The cluster is out and ready to go back in - but I don't have a radio so do I put it back together for a while then take it apart again to put in a heater core and radio?
I figured while I was this far I should at least find out how the vacuum system works and put that part of it back together so when I do the core and radio, that's all I will need to do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 1:31pm
Must be luck or lack there of that all the big body Javelins I have worked on were AC cars. Now on a lot of them all the engine bay AC parts were gone but all the "inside" parts were still intact to one degree or another. One of my pet peeves is people who hack off the AC hoses right at the firewall. SIGH.

I hope the information I posted can at least get you started on restoring the heat for your wife.

73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mopar_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 2:42pm
I don't know where you guys are coming up with a non A/C car having a water valve because on the 2 non A/C cars I have, neither have one. If you read the TSM on page 12A-2, it says that coolant flows thru the heater core all the time and the air temp is blended with cold air, meaning there's no water valve like an A/C car has.

"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 3:12pm
Billd, you may drop santiago a pm, about your need of assistance. He has a 73 Javelin that he is doing resto mod work on. I think it is a non A/C car, so he may have some good details.

He's Italian, but does good work with his translations.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Mopar_guy Mopar_guy wrote:

I don't know where you guys are coming up with a non A/C car having a water valve because on the 2 non A/C cars I have, neither have one. If you read the TSM on page 12A-2, it says that coolant flows thru the heater core all the time and the air temp is blended with cold air, meaning there's no water valve like an A/C car has.


Ya know, I came to that conclusion myself, today............ the TSM not only says nothing about a valve, but there's NO PLACE to mount a vacuum switch anywhere - plus, look at the parts books, or even online "for cars with AC", etc.

I got crazy and decided that since the cluster was out, so many things were broken, missing, and needed fixed, and, since it's SOOOO easy to remove the dash parts on these cars (again, i'd do five of these over ONE Eagle), anyway, the heater box is out, the old core is out, and I found MORE trouble.

First the PO removed the defrost "valve" control cable. I was going over the TSM over and over and over and was wondering how do they do this with two cables, and the heat lever doing nothing when moved from heat to defrost - nothing moved or changed.
Then I looked at a center section I got for parts a while back, it still had the heater control panel in it, and I found there were patterns in the dust where there had been a THIRD cable - a cable my car lacks.
I have the temp control or air blend cable and that worked, then there was another shorter cable and that worked, but where the TSM said there was a defrost door - there was nothing. Well, the door was there but no cable.
So I am missing a cable to operate the defrost portion.
Bloody heck - I had bought a right side air vent cable from Eddie a year or so ago and can't find it either - my cable that was tucked up under the dash was broken.... I bet I find it some day (I hope) with the NOS tach I can't find!!

Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that no one could find the vacuum or valve info on these cars because it never existed!

So what do I need for a defrost cable?? What did it look like, how long and what sort of ends? A loop on one end and the offset on the other for the lever?? How long was it?

Thanks for confirming what I was finding out this afternoon, mopar_guy...........
The valve is needed for AC cars because the air flows through the same areas for AC as it does heat - so they had to shut the coolant off on those cars, but stopped only the air flow on non-AC cars. Makes sense. (and was cheaper!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Mopar_guy Mopar_guy wrote:

I don't know where you guys are coming up with a non A/C car having a water valve because on the 2 non A/C cars I have, neither have one.
I have stated several times I have never worked on a non A/C car and all I have to compare it to is A/C cars. I was only trying to provide some ideas and a possible direction for Bill. I am glad that someone who knows better finally spoke up. I think I am done here.

73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 6:32pm
nonono - pit crew you aren't done yet!! LOL - more technical questions that apply to EITHER AC or non-AC cars   ;-)

Honestly, your help and info is always appreciated. 
AND, now that the valve bit is likely decided, the rest will apply to either ac or non-ac cars. 

OK with the "heater box" out,, I found the PO had been into this stuff before. There's a bracket on the far right end that I could see if the whole thing was lifted up a half inch on the right end it would bolt to the right side of the car itself. There were only a couple of screws holding the whole thing in.....and there was THICK FOAM and I mean THICK on the right end top between the heater core box area and the piece above it. Geesh,, if he had lifted that end up so that far right bolt could go in he could have cut the foam in half...

But here's my REAL question - and I "THINK" I know, and it's sort of a stupid question, but looking at these pictures - am I correct in that the PO put the heater box against that padding and it should not have been?? Shouldn't that "padding" or insulated matting be AROUND the box and not between the box and the firewall?
Please see the areas I have marked in red - you ca see he had it screwed to the firewall with this stuff between the firewall and heater box,, but that just doesn't seem right especially since that was only in spots,, and not all the way around (my keyboard is going south and missing some letters, doubling up on others)

Also - I couldn't stand the rusty painted water outlet so nickel plated it..........

Anyway, whoever can comment - that stuff shouldn't be between the heater box and firewall, is that correct?





You can see where this slipped down and the PO bolted the heater box up against it - doesn't see right to have that in some spots and not others - that may be why it smelled like engine in the car.



Well, it won't rust bad or quickly now - and it really doesn't take THAT much more than powder coating or painting and letting it dry a few hours before using it..........



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mopar_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 7:31pm
I have an extra control head and cables from my car if you're interested. I put Vintage Air in so I don't need it anymore.

There was some factory insulation on the firewall before the heater box was installed. If I remember right, there's not much holding it in. I removed all of it and replaced with with something better to keep engine heat out and keep it quieter inside.

"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fluffy73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 8:17pm
If your car is an original Non-A/C car, then there is no heater valve.  It runs full flow coolant through the heater core at all times. 

And yes, the insulation goes between the firewall and the heater box.
I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2018 at 8:50pm
The control head in my car works - but of course the black with lettering is wrinkled with age. I have another in a center section (no cables) but it's worse - the black has pulled away from the lever area and shows brown there.
My biggest thing now is lack of the defrost cable. I have a number of cables from various AMCs so could possibly make one if I knew the length, etc.

On the other hand - spares are always good and if your control is better than mine...........
I lost a bloody clip when I got stupid and wasn't careful and it went flying out the door and across the sho somewhere. I'll probably find it in a year or two.

The bit with the insulation is that some of it was between heater box and firewall, and in some spots not. It appears as if it was meant to be CLEAR of the openings, not sticking into the openings. In other words, it would seem to me that the heater box mounted not on the insulation, but with the insulation around it. I bet the PO had that out, let the insulation sag so it was in the way and just bolted the heater box on top of it instead of pushing it out of the way again..

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