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73 Javelin console install

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2018 at 7:51pm
The front seats I redid using "socks" or covers made using NOS PC fabric. I pulled the seats, cleaned up the frames and tracks, de-rusted, painted, etc. 
I pulled the old "covers" off and cleaned up the wires that are used to form the shape a bit, and installed the new covers. 

I wanted the console and shifter done before the seats went back in for obvious reasons - one slip with a drill bit or whatever, and OUCH. 

So once the console was screwed down and things mostly in place, the seats went back in. I had done the covers in the house then wrapped them up in plastic and took them back to the shop as the cats like to find new things to play with - didn't want claws near them so they never left my sight until they were finished - and then when done, they went out to the shop immediately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/03/2018 at 8:23pm
Console lid - one has the lock area partially broken, the other is intact. Both appear to be about the same condition-wise otherwise.
Opinions - are either worth trying to straighten out and repair?
I REALLY wish the AMC consoles had drink holders but, alas, they don't, so....... (not sure I'd want a cola in the car anyway, with these seats)

These are my choices - 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/03/2018 at 8:55pm
The painted one looks a bit more warped than the unpainted one, but you would need to fix the broken out section for the lock.

Them plates are thin so heating to straighten may cause more damage.

If you cut sheet metal using the plastic as a template, you may be able to weld a metal collar for the lock latch, and cut a slot and holes for mounting and latch to function.

At least you have two plates, so if one does not work out for you in your attempt, the other can be used to work.

I will be using a cut section of aluminum as an insert behind the plate. The foam cushion needs a wee trimming to allow for the thickness of the plate to fit without over stuffing the vinyl. Seems that the foam shrinks in a curved fashion, and bows upward. I tested with the plate at one time to make the top flat, which worked out fine. Never gone and fully corrected yet, as it was set aside when at the time arm rest lids were reproduced at $50. Waited too long and changed my mind, sort of thing, so it is left as a rainy day nothing to do project.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/03/2018 at 10:12pm
I used to make things of "Plexiglas" - and heated it and used jigs for shaping, etc.
it's been decades, but the idea is really slow heat and ensure it's evenly applied.
Another option is hot water............ less likely to heat the edges and cause waviness and water maxes out at 212 - it can't get any hotter at sea level and with no pressure applied. 
A person can also make a jig to hold it while heating to keep it flat.

Of course a person could find someone with a 3D printer....... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2018 at 7:33am
Bill,

I would suggest you take the broken one and use that for a practice run at using heat. If you ruin it then there is no big loss. If it works you now have a method for working the "good" one. I am wondering if you could make one up from sheet metal and weld on a piece for the latch area.

The backing plate is just part of the issue. The "lid" is just foam filled vinyl and takes on a permanent curve too. Even if you have a good straight used one it will start to curl too someday as the plastic backer is not strong enough to hold the lid straight by itself. That is why the reproduction lids had a steel spine embedded in them.

Hey, know any good fiberglass people? I have seen them make entire door panels, speaker enclosures, A pillar covers, and such from fiberglass. Maybe they could make you a new lid with cup holders molded in. Now that would be unique.

73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2018 at 7:46am
Originally posted by pit crew pit crew wrote:

Bill,

I would suggest you take the broken one and use that for a practice run at using heat. If you ruin it then there is no big loss. If it works you now have a method for working the "good" one. I am wondering if you could make one up from sheet metal and weld on a piece for the latch area.

The backing plate is just part of the issue. The "lid" is just foam filled vinyl and takes on a permanent curve too. Even if you have a good straight used one it will start to curl too someday as the plastic backer is not strong enough to hold the lid straight by itself. That is why the reproduction lids had a steel spine embedded in them.

Hey, know any good fiberglass people? I have seen them make entire door panels, speaker enclosures, A pillar covers, and such from fiberglass. Maybe they could make you a new lid with cup holders molded in. Now that would be unique.




Billd does fiberglass repairs, and did a fine job with his missing areas in his console.

Yep, all you explained is what I feel about It. Just did not explain well, that the plate is not what keeps thing straight.

I have part of my reinforcing plate done, may have a bit of time Thursday to get some pictures done and show how it is installed, as to show what i mean about straightening the foam lid.

I swear the foam gets harder with age, and the only way to correct it from damaging the thin mounting plate is to use an insert. Just a picture or two will show how i am using it. I literally dig out a channel along the edges and force fit the plate frame between the molded vinyl lip and the foam. So when the frame is fully in place, with vinyl lip over the frame, the lid is straightened out flat, with no stress on the mounting plate.

The internal black structure should have been cast in aluminum or zinc, as the ABS is too thin, to support and strengthen the foam from curling. Once you take off the mounting plate you will see the foam surrounding the internal structure to hold the foam against the mounting plate.



Edited by 304-dude - Apr/04/2018 at 7:49am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2018 at 8:10am
The foam/vinyl piece can also be straightened using hot water. It's the vinyl top that shrinks and not the foam.
A opposing curved bottom wood frame, clamps, wood and towels on the top and slowly pouring hot water from a kettle will reshape the top without damaging it or the foam underneath.
Reshaped the curved vinyl door panels this way and it had the box board/foam underneath.
The flat plastic is easy enough to straighten in an oven at 200 degrees over several hours it will almost reshape to a surface by itself. I agree to reinforce it though, after it is straight.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2018 at 10:05am
Just to give an Idea, here is what I could do for today, as for pix.

The frame I had originally had made up, was used for another project, so a part of it was cut away unintentionally. I thought I snapped an image, but did not see it in the selections. Basically here is the top, flattened out with frame inside, though the frame needs the corners rounded and some bevelling at the edges. Also i need to removed more material from the foam. As I am dealing with 1/4" thick aluminum plate. You can tell by the roundness of the top as it flattens out near the top edges.



Here is the underside without the frame and some martial removed.



Edited by 304-dude - Apr/04/2018 at 10:08am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2018 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Lyle Lyle wrote:

The foam/vinyl piece can also be straightened using hot water. It's the vinyl top that shrinks and not the foam.
A opposing curved bottom wood frame, clamps, wood and towels on the top and slowly pouring hot water from a kettle will reshape the top without damaging it or the foam underneath.
Reshaped the curved vinyl door panels this way and it had the box board/foam underneath.
The flat plastic is easy enough to straighten in an oven at 200 degrees over several hours it will almost reshape to a surface by itself. I agree to reinforce it though, after it is straight.  

Like the 70 dash pad and the earlier Javelin arm rests.
I had thought about this - remove the plastic plate on the bottom (granted that's now the problem part, but does need to be straightened or replaced) - I had thought about doing what one does with wood when one wants to curve it slightly - notches. 
A plastic cutting wheel on a Dremel would put very thin notches in the foam. Make them a bit wider at the bottom and thin them up to almost nothing on the top up inside.  (or a fine knife)
Or, Pit Crew gave me an idea - yeah, fiberglass, but then what about POPLAR?
It's a very fine grained wood, easy to cut and carve and can be made very smooth and painted. 
I could glue up poplar to the thickness of the console "lid" and do rough shaping on the band saw, and final shaping with router, plane, knives, whatever. 
Then a person could use a Forstner bit to make a flat-bottomed hole for the latch - perhaps even epoxy a metal washer in the hole and notch or drill it to shape for the latch. 


With two lids I can experiment a bit - the tips from Lyle will help - make a jig, notch the foam, use hot water.......... 
the plastic if heated VERY slowly should be ok. That's the key - especially with any form of oven - some parts will be closer to the source of the heat and get hot faster. Heat comes from the coils or elements, and will hit the edges first so it either needs to be in a large source of heat, or done with water, etc. 
If 200 degrees is the key, then boiling hot water would be the same and would heat it far more evenly than any oven could without fear of scorching or burning, etc.

As far as reinforcing, I still believe an aluminum angle would do that, or two of them run the length of the lid, front to back, with the angle up into the foam and the bottom screwed to the plastic bottom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2018 at 9:22pm
Round is stiffer then square or rectangular for the same dimension. Hollow round is is stronger through bending momentum then solid (given parameters of hollowing out). All be it harder to mount.
The angle may show eventually in the cover while a round piece is less likely to show ridges (especially if you tend to rest an elbow).
Another option would be to put 1/8" Lexan between the cover and ABS. No expansion/contraction concerns as with steel or aluminum, easily machined and glued, much more rigid then ABS.
Just food for thought.
 
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