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73 Javelin brake and suspension project

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2018 at 10:22pm
Car back down on floor on all four wheels again. Sadly, though, no back brakes. Apparently the combo valve I had is blocking any fluid from getting to the rear end.
I have fluid TO the combo valve, nothing out the end.. 
Front brakes work great but it's obvious there's some braking power lacking and I could never get fluid out the rear cylinders.
So I guess I locate a CORRECT size combo valve. I checked and there are like a half dozen different ones, all similar look, size and shape, but they all have different fitting thread sizes. I looked up several and good gravy, you have to know the fitting sizes at each port to get the right one.

The car sits pretty good.......... of course the alignment is all out of whack but other than some wandering and the steering wheel being off-center a few degrees I was able to take it a mile up the road and back just fine. 

The best part - NO MORE CLUNKING!! No more smacking sounds with every pavement crack!
It rides NICE.
So once I figure out a valve for the brakes, I get it aligned and it's at least sort of ready for some driving. 
Still no heater - and my wife says "you have to get heat in that thing" but that's a later worry......
BRAKES are my first thought, now.

Oh - on the NSS and backup lights? I got a decent harness with connector from a forum member, wires decent, plug for the NSS end is supple, not hard but the kicker - it has a THREE wire connector at the top end - the car has a FOUR wire connector.
So I have to make an adapter, OR - better yet, find the three wire plug from a car that takes the three wire connector. 
The fourth wire is for the seat belt interlock - well, I don't have that (any more HAHA)
So I only need three - NSS, power to backup lights, power from fuse block for backup lights.
So - does anyone have the plastic shell for the three wire or three conductor NSS harness??
The harness from the transmission has the male spades - the connector I need I would remove the wires from the four wire shell on the car and use only three of the wires, leaving the seat belt interlock wire out.

So I need the plastic shell from an AMC harness that takes wires like this - 

_
||

Makes sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1970390amx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 1:42am
His wiring harness connector looks like this, he is looking for the other end.
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 4:04am
If your car has the seat belt interlock system, that means it's a very late 1973.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 10:29am
Many of the parts, including the SEATS, have date marks of November 1972.
One of the seat parts said January 1973.
So - seats made in 11th month of 72 had the switch in the seat for the interlock...... they either saw it coming and ordered several months ahead with the switches, etc. or it came in not all that late in the model year.
This part we know and is fact - PC seats were made in November 72 with the switches for the interlock system. How far in advance would AMC have ordered PC seats with the switches for use in late 73 model year? These aren't ordinary seats...... so stocking up on them doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
That's discussion for another day..............
The point isn't if it's late or early, that sort of depends on how one defines "late" and it doesn't play into the piece I need at all - the point is this - I need the connector for the harness that Roger has been good enough to show... 
All I need is the shell but will take shell with whatever wire I can get, as I'll work it into my wiring so it looks factory. 
I also need to find/buy a solenoid that has the ground terminal on the back in order to have a NSS system that works. the PO apparently replaced the solenoid with one that is gray and doesn't have the ground terminal - meaning even with this harness connected at the transmission, the car will still start in any gear selector position because the current solenoid doesn't require a distinct ground to operate.
So to get NSS functional, I need that connector/pigtail and a different solenoid. I found the two wires that operate the backup lights.

Can't wait to get the brakes working on the rear - dang combo valve - I may try another attempt at repairing it, then to the alignment shot, then I can DRIVE it. 
Today I'm going to grind the upright parts of the cross member so the grease fittings of the inner tie rods will clear. My search found that I'm not the only and certainly not the first to discover replacement parts don't clear. I found others have ground that part back just a bit. 
If you lay the original tie rods next to the new ones you see there's a lot more meat on the new ones and it's located back of the ball and socket. The originals had a far thinner profile. 
So it's a matter of raising the car up and turning the wheels to one extreme or the other and using a small grinder to reshape the cross member where it hits. 
At least I know the issue and that I ain't the first to run into this by any stretch. HEAVIER DUTY tie rods are the thing........
I'll also now that the car has run a couple of miles, get toe closer with a tape measure.
The ride is great and handling good so with alignment it should be fantastic. I'd expect so with all new and even better parts, than before.

I could tell the difference in differentials when I was backing the car up my rather steep gravel in back of the garage. Before I had to give it some throttle and then when the converter grabbed I'd throw gravel and spin a wheel. I had to really feather it to back off the concrete and onto the gravel far enough to turn it around. Now I can back up that steep gravel and not dig trenches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 11:17am

Here both male and female. Seems like the female connector I found has the lock down setup differently. So a male connector would be ordered to match.

https://www.delcity.net/store/Female-Packard-Connectors/p_9287.h_810139

Here is its corresponding mate...

https://www.delcity.net/store/Male-Packard-Connectors/p_9288.h_810146

Gosh about your solenoid, seems you should find them easy. Though I did a search for nos and came up sort. Even my KEM part number has no showing.



Edited by 304-dude - Apr/08/2018 at 11:21am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 1:49pm
LOL  - no, I am not going shopping to buy a NEW connector. Heck no, not when I know there are many many dozens of used ones out there on all of those cars that our own members part each year. They exist, but no one saves that sort of part - no profit in it.
I am going to look for a proper USED one from a 1973 or similar with no TCS connection - the fourth wire, orange, is used for another switch in the transmission - the TCS. Since I don't have that (thanks to a prior owner) I only need to use the blue (w/trace) brown and tan wires. 
So I only want to use the shell to hold the wires - so if I find someone scrapping a Javelin with the three wire connector to match the one Roger showed (which I now have) - I need the shell - and the wires would be ok, but shell really is all I need as long as it has the CORRECT terminal provisions - and guess what, these are NOT the packard type connectors. If they were, I could use the shell from the regulator wiring connector on one of the other AMC wiring harnesses I have. Already looked at that. 
AND - it also doesn't match other similar three wire connector shells I have.
Thus instead of messing around I want an original from a Javelin being parted out and trust me - we all see several every year where parts are being advertised - but no one seems to save the wiring (if they did it would all be in my shop by now)

The starter "solenoid" is rather specific, I sort of suspect it may be the same or similar to those used in later AMC - I'll check that out. If so, I may have one laying around, but I know I have a couple used ones for sticks - that don't have that ground terminal on the back side.

Car is up on stands again so I can grind clearance on the cross member for the tie rods - that will be simple, a 5 minute job. 

I'm then going to mess with the combo valve again and see if I can't make that work....... what a pain that is to get to and disconnect and reconnect. There's five bloody lines going to and from that thing. Each ready to bleed all over when I loosen them up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 6:51pm
I pulled the combination valve off and disassembled it carefully on my bench again. 
I went over it again, did MORE cleaning of the bores, lubed things with "rubber grease" (from Girling) and made really sure when it went back together that the valves and spools ended up exactly where they should be in a relaxed, no pressure, situation, reinstalled it and now have fluid to the rear brakes.

I ran out of time (and the weather stunk - COLD with snow on the ground, the roads a mess) so don't know exactly how the brakes behave. Hope to try things tomorrow to see that I actually have brakes on both axles now. I know the fronts worked and worked well but got NO fluid to the rears at all before - not a lick, not a drop. This time I was able to fully bleed and flush the rears and got half a cup of fluid out the rear cylinders. (and the brake warning light stayed off-  also a good sign)
So, HOPEFULLY, tomorrow will tell. 
If the brakes work, next step is to find someone who will/can align it this week. Not everyone wants to touch these cars - one shop years ago said "we aren't sure how, they are more complex" -I straightened the out on that real quick. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/10/2018 at 7:21am
"More complex" meaning the car isn't in the computer and we don't know how to do it manually...
Most computer controlled alignment systems DO have a way to enter settings manually. If they told you that and that they didn't have the settings it's easy to hand them a TSM. I did that at one shop -- they were impressed with the TSM and info it had.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/10/2018 at 10:46am
I gave a shop a copy of the TSM pages related to alignment, etc. for my SX4 a few years back - and it SPECIFICALLY STATED exactly how to position the tie rod sleeves and clamps.
As I left the lot the steering JAMMED as I entered a four-lane highway busy with traffic. I WAS #%$#$$ as when I looked they had the clamps aimed at the cross member and on an Eagle there's precious little room for error (there's very little room for anything under there)
they'll never do another alignment for me. That could have been deadly - and it proved they don't do test drives after alignment - to me that is a MUST. If you don't try it, you haven't done a real alignment. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/10/2018 at 7:26pm
Took the car out again and this time the brakes were even different than before - very low pedal - but I knew what the issue was based on how it behaved when I used the brakes, etc. 
So I took it back in and bled the fronts again - ran a good quarter cup of fluid through each bleeder up front and took it back out and it now has a high great pedal and all four wheels brake. Nice - good brakes, high, solid pedal - and disc brakes up front, new wheel cylinders and like new brakes in the back, all new lines and hoses. Cool.

Alignment is set for 8:30 Thursday am. I set the toe a bit better today and the steering wheel is nearly centered now and I can sight down each wheel and it's just barely toed-in so I can drive it to town for the alignment and not tear things up. It wants to go straight, no pull, handles decent, so my guessing on the other angles is likely close.

I used my grinder and then a Dremel with a grinding/cutting wheel to trim the left side of the cross member - funny, the factory did that to the right side for clearance for the tie rod there but the left side was still straight up and down. the right part has a curve cut into it for clearance, the left didn't - but does now. Not as perfect as the factory job but I have clearance. I'll see if my photos turned out so I can show what I mean.

To gain access to the lines and the valve area I had to remove the blower motor. In the process the bottom screw broke off. Great, it's spot welded into the housing from the inside. So - Dremel to the rescue. I was able to cut and grind it out and then as luck would have it, the blower is mounted with 10-24 studs. Gee, that's the same as Motorola Alternators use for the diodes. I have a collection of 10-24 screws with the splines or knurling that holds them into the diode heat sinks. Cool, that means I could pull one into the hole and it would stay put as the splines cut into the steel housing and now I have three decent screws to put the blower back in.
In this top photo you can see the bottom screw I replaced. Three new keps nuts and the blower is back in place - like it matters since the heater core is busted up and bypassed.

Yeah, I KNOW I screwed up - that union is supposed to be higher on the firewall - but I cut the bottom line for the rear brakes about 4" too short........ oh, well - will anyone know but me? Oops, yeah, now everyone reading this will know!



Blower motor back in place and over a year worth of DUST and crud washed off.



And this is how it sits now with the replacement springs from an AMX - I'd like perhaps a half-inch more but it's really not bad and probably not that far from where it should be.



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