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700R4 to AMC V8

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uncljohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 700R4 to AMC V8
    Posted: Apr/12/2014 at 2:59am
I was recently asked the question as to how to get a 700R4 transmission hooked up to an AMC V8 and the following kit probably should get the job done:

http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/716138--chevy-auto-trans-to-amc-engine-adapter/

As noted in the instructions you will need a flex plate.  They are for sale so they can be purchased.

Two more items will be needed.  Something to control the lock up torque converter.  It can be done with a manual switch but the problem with that is forgetting it when it is needed and burning up the transmission.  It can also be done with a brake switch addition. 
I like the one where a pressure sensor switch is installed in the 3/4 servo and a ported vacuum switch is installed in the proper carburetor tap.  This insures that the transmission is in 4th gear AND ported vacuum is high enough which means cruising.  And if it either down shifts due to acceleration or ported vacuum falls off due to climbing a grade the torque converter will unlock.  In addition a brake switch can be added to insure if the brakes are hit, the torque converter unlocks. This can be accomplished for about $100.00 worth of kits + Parts.  There are of course a whole host of modifications that can be purchased for this, but I like the one described.  Last but not least is the speedometer drive.
There are adapters available for the transmission to convert them to mechanical cable drive or you can go whole hog to a satellite driven speedometer.
I am also a fan of a 2200 rpm stall torque converter.

Will it fit under the tunnel, well yes sort of, it is wide.  I solved that by widening my tunnel by 4 inches which gave room for the pressure switch for the converter lock up and space to mount an aftermarket transcooler next to the transmission.  As new rugs were being installed, they fit right over the widened tunnel and unless you are looking for it, it is not noticeable.
I am going to save the coins for a new speedometer and in the mean time drive off of the tachometer.

As to final gearing?  I will eventually pick a final drive that will work out to about 32mph / 1000 rpm in 5th locked up.  In the mean time the 2.73 AMC 15 rear axle which is in good shape will stay until 1) it breaks or 2) I get tired of the tall gearing.

700R4 torque converter Lock Up wiring and kits:
http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=700r4+torque+converter+lockup+wiring&oq=700R4+Torqe&gs_l=hp.1.1.0i13l10.4587.11828.0.17404.12.12.0.0.0.0.515.2342.0j10j1j5-1.12.0.chm_loc%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmnts%3D50000...0...1.1.40.hp..1.11.1821.0.B0KU_3MhwZU

GPS Electronic Speedometers:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Auto-Meter-5289-GPS-Sending-Module-Universal-for-Electric-Speedometers,66160.html



Edited by uncljohn - Apr/12/2014 at 8:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71AMX4014SPD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2014 at 6:35am
Anyone ever installed a 200R4 in a Javelin? Maybe a better fit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2014 at 7:43am
A 200 is a better fit, and it has been done.  Comparatively speaking a 700 is to a 200 as a 727 is to a 904.  Both can be made to work, the smaller transmissions fit better carry the power when built and break quicker.  Yet people will beat the heck out of the tunnel to get a 727 installed when they don't need one.  I have a 904 I have built up 14 years ago behind a rather strong 6 that I have driven hard for years with no problem what so ever.  But a stronger engine might break it.  Or harder driving.  Same problem, both work, one fits better and breaks earlier.
I scored a 700, so I am installing it in a Hornet.  I made the tunnel larger in order to fit the 700 easier rather than beat it to death with a sledge hammer.  It looks nicer and works.



Edited by uncljohn - Apr/12/2014 at 7:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2014 at 8:02am

On Fran’s old site member Unstable Bob IIRC did a 2004r in a gen 2 Javelin w/401.

It was built up a lot to take the power. It might have been built more than a GNX trany.

Yes it is smaller and fits the car better but I would think by the time you did the buildup plus the needed adapters it would be cheaper to di a 700r4

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mramc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2014 at 10:44am
Novak adopters also makes a kit for 700R4 to AMC blocks. They have a very good knowledge data base on there web site and there kit includes the flex plate too, for about the same money. Also works with 200R4. Also be aware that there are several " Flavors" of 700R4s . The data base explains the differences among the 700R4s which to use and which are not as user friendly. Really this swap in general has become so common the easiest thing is to just order a 700R4 or a 200R4 from some one.
(Not just for AMCs but for a lot older cars in general. Picking up a 1954 Hudson Hornet  Sunday in San Diego with Hudson 308 and 700R4 on it.) By the time you find a core 700R4 and then have it rebuilt it just about cheaper to order one to your specs and just have it shipped to you. LRDaum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2014 at 5:43pm
I've got a friend running a built 200-4r behind a 600+ HP, 550 Lt/lb 496 CI stroker BBC in a 66 Chevelle. Drag races it all the time and does cruises and it seems to be holding up just fine.

I thought about it for my AMX. Somebody makes an additional part for the Novak kit that will allow the 700R4 behind the GEN2 V8s. I have a 2WD Jeep AW4 from behind a 4.0 that I may try to put behind my 390. A couple of guys are running them behind warm 360s and they seem to be holding up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2014 at 6:57pm
I have a 200-R4 behind the 401 in our Rogue. I tried a 700 and it wouldn't fit the tunnel. Even the 200 hits around the bell housing area of the firewall and it's tight around the servo on the pass side. Both had to be modified. The trans mount is about 6" to the rear, so you have to build a crossmember. 

I used the Advance Adapter kit and it's really nice with their flex plate and a aftermarket lock-up TC. There has been lots of discussion about weather to use a lock-up torque. A lot of people say not to, but I believe the fluid is circulated through it when it's locked up and cooling is affected if its not. I think it's a no-brainer on a mild street car because it's another 6% reduction in RPM. I bought a kit that uses engine vacuum, but I hooked it up to a switch. I just engage it manually on the highway. If you forget about it it's just like coming to a stop and not stepping on the clutch.

Another big difference between the 700 and 200 is in gearing. First gear is much lower in the 700 as it was intended as a truck transmission. The gear spread in the 200 is much better and I think the overdrive reduction is more. I have a 3:54 rear and I'm thinking a 3:73 would give better performance and still be nice on the highway.

Some of the issues are getting a dipstick to clear the firewall. I used a LoKar flexible dipstick. The most complicated is the carb/TV cable hookup. When I did mine, there weren't any available kits, so I copied the shape and position and made a bracket that I tacked to the Edelbrock carb, but I was never comfortable really using it hard. I have tired a new kit from summit that corrects the ratio and it seamed OK, but now I have new Street Demon carbs that have the right hookup included. You just can't use the kick down location on the carb because the TV cable is a progressive "curve" that controls the throttle pressure. If it's not right, you can fry the trans in miles.

Overall, I love it. It made it a different car on the highway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2014 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Rogue401 Rogue401 wrote:

I used the Advance Adapter kit and it's really nice with their flex plate and a aftermarket lock-up TC. There has been lots of discussion about weather to use a lock-up torque. A lot of people say not to, but I believe the fluid is circulated through it when it's locked up and cooling is affected if its not. I think it's a no-brainer on a mild street car because it's another 6% reduction in RPM. I bought a kit that uses engine vacuum, but I hooked it up to a switch. I just engage it manually on the highway. If you forget about it it's just like coming to a stop and not stepping on the clutch.


I am a total advocate of lock up torque converters. Both the modified 904 I am using in my Spirit and the 700R4 I am using in my Hornet make use of the benefit of them.  I had 2200 rpm Stall converters built for both of them.
Of course the 904 is all hydraulic and the 700R4 is electronic and it really should be hooked up to the carb vacuum in that when you are wanting to pass some one, acceleration will cause it to unlock and it drives like another gear.
And here in Arizona anyway the word is that those who use a switch only are burning out transmissions on the steeper grades in the hills due to not unlocking them. 
But what ever.  They will work with a switch.
Mine used ported vacuum, the 3/4 servo pressure and a brake switch over-ride.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2014 at 9:47am
The torque converter people will build TCs without lock up. They will not burn up just because it doesnt lock up.     And a very little known fact about the 700 is it locks the TC in 3rd. Then it goes in OD. I used to pull them out and tear them down all the time. And if you get a core to rebuild, you dont want any thing older than 1986. Older ones cost more to rebuild because so many parts need to be upgraded to make it last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2014 at 10:26am
I had the lock-up connected to vacuum, but didn't like it locking up around town. Maybe it's because of the 2 carbs, but it hunted around a lot which was annoying. The switch just lets me lock it up on the highway where the biggest difference is felt anyway. We cruised across Idaho (or iowa?) at well over 100 with the top down and it was a joy!

Same comments on getting the latest 200R4 you can find. The early ones were junk. Typical GM...release it to the public and fix it along the way. Mine is out of an 1986 full size Olds wagon with the "corporate" V8 with Quadrajet carb. I looked for a year for the better Turbo Buick/ Monte SS versions, but gave up. Luckily, my dad's transmission shop is still in the family and we made most of the SS upgrades, except for the better governor. It still shifts too early and soft for me, but it's OK. I do now have one out of an SS. There is also a modified valve body out now with raised throttle pressure so the TV cable isn't as critical. 

I did this swap in 1998 before it was as common and parts weren't as available, plus the memory is a little hazy :-).

I looked into a GearVendor unit on a 904 at the time and thought it was just too expensive, But still think it's probably the easiest,best solution in the long run. Kinda like the twin-stick in my High-school 64 Classic.
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