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70 AMX Torque Steer- Problem Found

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gwryder View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul/20/2014 at 1:08pm
Hi All,
My AMX has started to torque steer. The problem started the other day when I accelerated hard and shifted into 2nd gear (neighbors first ride in an AMX, he's impressed!).Under heavy acceleration, the car pulls to the right and when I release the throttle, it pulls left. The pulling is definitely related to acceleration, otherwise the car goes straight down the road. When I de-clutch, the torque steer goes away. There is no unusual noise coming from the axle.

When I got home I lifted the rear wheels off the ground and spun the right rear wheel and the left wheel spun in the same direction. There didn't seem to be any excessive play in the differential too. I changed the fluid and put in fresh Mobil 1 LS 75w-90 lube. I noticed small metal filing in the fluid. Not a lot, but definitely there.


About 4 years ago, I had the rear axle rebuilt by an AMC expert up in Bay City. I installed it on the AMX when it was a 360 auto, now it's a 390 4-speed. The axle now has about 500-600 miles on it since the rebuild.

The AMX otherwise drives nice, just the acceleration thing, but that's what AMX's are all about in my opinion. I also drove to a freshly paved asphalt parking lot and pulled a short hole-shot, only the left wheel left rubber on the asphalt.

I plan on calling the rebuilder tomorrow and see what he thinks is going on. What do you guy's think? As always, I appreciate the advice here.

Thanks, John

Edited by gwryder - Jul/29/2014 at 8:14pm
John
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rockAMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/20/2014 at 1:13pm
The AMX came with torque links in the rear as standard equipment. They are not the best solution, but they do help. Could be the bushings in them are worn or the bolts have worked loose or both. They were designed to help with just this problem so worth checking. Torque links can be removed and rebuilt or replaced. One member on this forum rebuilds them with the proper rubber bushings. A search should be able to find him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/20/2014 at 1:32pm
I would also look at the u bolts, and spring eye bushings. Torque from the engine will make the car torque over, meaning it will squat more on the right rear, and the left front will come up. Its a 44 year old car with 50+ year technology..    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwryder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/20/2014 at 2:35pm
Good advice. I rebuilt the spring eye and torque links with poly's when the axle was rebuilt. I did not adjust the torque links. I will check out the suggestion's.
I'm now thinking something might have slipped since this was the first hard acceleration. I had read about the problems with polys on torque links and the rubber were the best design. I thought about having them rebuilt, now it looks like a good idea. Fortunately I have a extra set I can send in.

I need to get back to cutting the grass.


Thank You.
John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX390AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/20/2014 at 2:42pm
John,
  Don't forget to check tire pressure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwryder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2014 at 7:05pm
Hi all,
Thanks for the responses. The responses moved me in the right direction.

Update On Torque Steer.

* The problem is still there after torque link adjustment.
* Tire pressures are all @ 35 psi
* All rear spring components, spring center bolt, eye bolt bushings look ok except the right front rebound clip is missing.

There is no evidence of rear axle parts sliding causing the axle to shift.

My theory is that if the right front rebound clip is missing, that would allow the front section of the spring to wind up, causing the axle to shift forward on the right side. This would cause the pull to the right.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks, John
John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2014 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by gwryder gwryder wrote:

Hi all,
Thanks for the responses. The responses moved me in the right direction.

Update On Torque Steer.

* The problem is still there after torque link adjustment.
* Tire pressures are all @ 35 psi
* All rear spring components, spring center bolt, eye bolt bushings look ok except the right front rebound clip is missing.

There is no evidence of rear axle parts sliding causing the axle to shift.

My theory is that if the right front rebound clip is missing, that would allow the front section of the spring to wind up, causing the axle to shift forward on the right side. This would cause the pull to the right.

What are your thoughts?





That is a good start. Perhaps a suspension problem that is causing the car to dive on one side when you accelerate. Do you notice this? Worn shock or shocks on one side. When did you last replace them? Not saying this is the issue, but easy to check and cheap to replace.

Thanks, John
DWR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwryder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2014 at 8:52pm
RockAMX,
The AMX squats toward the back on acceleration and severely pulls to the right. When I let up on the throttle, the car pulls back to the left.
All the components are new, everything from the poly rear bushings to the shocks.

It seems pretty easy to make up another clip, at least for a test. I think that is the next step. Thanks for the thoughts.

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budryzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2014 at 6:03am
Greetings, My car does this as well. It pulls hard and tends to the left when under throttle and droops back to the right when off throttle. I think I can correct this with setting up my suspension with the opposite built in to compensate, but then it would be crooked from the rear. ie I still have shackles on the back leaf springs. I would put the drivers side one bolt hole higher than the pass. These are the common shackle lift kits. Mine are installed with the three holes facing down so the leaf bolt goes through them. I have brand new spring and things 2" lift leafs that are their heavy duty model.
It's torque reaction that we are trying to counter. My torque links are installed and torqued under load.....
When it happens, my front end rises a good amount, adding to the effect. If I stop all of the torque reactions, it wouldn't be such a pleasure to ride down the road. It feels so smooth and straight, I don't want to change it. Mash the pedal!!!!! The beast is released:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwryder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2014 at 10:17am
budryzer,
Thanks for the input. My 390 is a mild stock rebuild. The torque steer varies with the amount of throttle I give it. The problem started after the first hard run. I thought I heard a clink and the car pulled right slightly.
The stock 390 AMX I had years ago, did not exibit this type of torque steer. This car is built from that drive train.

I did a little research on the subject and it's difficult to find a definitive answer. I did find one forum that talked about more axle wrap due to a missing rebound clip. I'm thinking if the right spring rolls more than the left, the distance from the rignt side axle tube will be shorter to the frame. If that occurs, then the axle will shift, pointing more to the left side, causing a push in that direction. At the steering wheel it feels like the car is steering to the right. ( I call this type of thinking as WATs ( Wild A$$ Theory, because there's no data to support it. Below is from that site.
 
"It is my understanding, the proper name for Spring Clips is Rebound Clips. To some degree, they impact the following:
Body roll - Without Spring clips, the inside wheel springs open when going around a turn. This will increase body roll. The more the leafs open, the greater the body roll.
Axle Wrap - When the rear pinion torques the front goes up and the springs want to separate (open) on the rear side of the springs. The clamps will help, by reducing how far the leafs open. Less opening, less axle wrap.
Wheel hop – The same explanation as Axle Wrap.
Spring Leaf fan out - Especially probable when wheeling. Street driving not as critical. They cannot fan out if the clips are properly installed. No clips and loose U-bolts are a disaster waiting to happen.
Springs break - Springs break on rebound, not compression, per Eaton spring (Detroit Spring"
Thanks,
Thanks,
John
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