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69 SC Journey |
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Page <1 7677787980 95> |
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kcsamc 
AMC Addicted 
Joined: Sep/03/2011 Location: Denver, PA Status: Offline Points: 1974 |
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 Posted: Jan/10/2018 at 10:55pm |
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Steve_P:
I was qued in to look for a "VA" stamp at the top of the box, but on both SC/R boxes I have, neither had anything other than the yellow dot. I am pretty careful with my archaeology work, so I really don't think these 69 boxes had any The clamp on the steering column was rusty with white overspray on the outside - but inside had a very black surface finish - I do believe it was black phosphate:  The nut was so rusty I couldn't tell what it was - will do some more research on that before installing. On the rear - I did do the gun metal darkening on the axle tubes - see posting from a good while back. Yes, you have busted me before on the axle nut, but I can't find NOS, and I really don't feel like stripping off a perfectly good protective coating on the new ones. I'd love to see what inspection dabs people have found on the rear axle yoke. We didn't find anything on ours, but maybe a lower mile car might have something to copy over from. ______________________________________________________________________ Last night I did some metal surface treating of the steering box shaft and adjustment screw end. The shaft looks very believable raw machined shaft:  Tonight I prepped and gray phospated the original steering box - steps in order:    And finally the payoff, moving closer to re-assembly!  At least I met goal for tonight! |
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Jan/11/2018 at 9:00am |
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I will look at the 69 box I have. My brother's car was in decent shape before he pulled the box to convert to ps. I also have jars of fasteners from that year........can do some digging.
I also recall that clamp as being black on his car. |
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Jan/11/2018 at 8:05pm |
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The bolts that hold the box in my brother's 69 were VERY black - in fact a sheen black.
The nuts and lock washers were zinc. (confirmed with acid test, etc.) There were no marks at all on the box but the shaft had the yellow mark. Would be happy to gather any other details but it sounds like you have things under control.     |
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Steve_P
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Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3805 |
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Posted: Jan/18/2018 at 3:33pm |
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On the steering column clamp, I'm getting the finishes from a perfect NOS assembly - not 50 yr old rusty parts.
On the steering box, if you haven't already, you should sand the top surface to recreate the machining as it will show with the date code. You'll have to blast out the date code stamping first. I recreate the machining on a small granite surface block that I tape sandpaper to. The differential yoke had paint marks. You didn't find them but they were originally there. Maybe the steering box ID marking also disappeared as it was probably ink and not paint? I believe they were marked for the assy line to tell if it was quick ratio or standard. Obviously you can't recreate marks that you can't find, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist when the car was new. There were a lot of paint marks on AMCs, probably as many as any other make. The problem is that there are so few survivor AMCs that didn't see salt and so few people looking for the markings, and it took us 40+ years to start looking. I've found a lot of inspection markings but have probably missed as many as I've found. I've never seen a super low mileage car, but have seen some high mileage (100k)original cars from TX and CA that didn't see salt and they have tons of markings if you go slow -like you do. |
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Jan/18/2018 at 5:09pm |
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The problem with some paint marks and some ink marks is that the steel wasn't prepped for paint to stick or last. It needed only to get through production then "who cared". Stamped and formed steel would have oils and other contaminates and paint wouldn't stick well. As we've seen with the ink on alternators, even cast aluminum in the elements will lose marks.
it takes a very well-preserved vehicle from a state that doesn't experience the environmental extremes to be able to get some of those marks from. I was lucky on my Javelin - the dealership sprayed undercoating everywhere - even on the drive shaft - and it preserved paint markings, part number tags and other things. The front springs had perfectly well-preserved original tags on them and the drive shaft had very nice paint marks. But some things didn't survive, even with only 24K miles on it........ steering box and shaft marks and so on. How about a piece of tempered glass with self-adhesive sand paper? That seems to work out well. I've used that for sharpening planes as well as making things flat again.
BTW - have a box ready to ship back....... the blower motor is, well, I cleaned it with electrolysis to get rust out of the pits, bead blasted it, used 'lab metal' to fill in the deeper pits and self-etching primer and about three coats of primer to fill the shallow problems and it's pretty nice now - I didn't go all-out so could have missed something but knew you would do final prep and paint it as needed. But it's primed and pretty well smoothed out with nice looking wires, clean and nice connectors, etc. The shell of the blower was painted then the parts like the brass grommet and the bearing retainer riveted in place after the paint, so you'll likely need to get a magnifying glass and tweezers to mask the rivets and that brass grommet LOL Both items ready to ship back, hope to make it to post office tomorrow....... |
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Steve_P
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Posted: Jan/18/2018 at 7:14pm |
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My point is, yes, the steering column clamp is black. And not painted. But not phosphate. It's blackened from the forming process. Like the idler arm bracket . Like the axle tubes ends. Go to a machine shop that does heat treating and look at parts from the oven- they're black. Not phosphate. It's from the heating.
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Jan/18/2018 at 7:55pm |
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I assumed the black on many parts was from the forming.
Starter frames, for example are pretty dark in their virgin state, unmachined. It's almost like a phosphate treatment but it's the heat of forming. Excessive cleaning gets through that, I assume carbon brought to the surface, and reveals the silver below. But stripped CAREFULLY of paint, if it's not rusted, it's a charcoal gray. I knew axle tubes never got a "treatment" unless they ended up painted but then the paint wasn't great because the metal wasn't prepped for paint. I've stripped enough of them of "undercoating" and paint and all. One can tell in some cases because of how the rust is formed, the sort, origins, and such. Good points - I'll have to pay attention to some of the better parts I have. |
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kcsamc
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Joined: Sep/03/2011 Location: Denver, PA Status: Offline Points: 1974 |
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Posted: Jan/19/2018 at 9:18pm |
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Bill - thanks again for the very thorough work - looking forward to seeing the motor refurbed. Brooke should be happy now that we save the original verses the NOS with newer style snout!
Steve - I'm still not buying the black on the clamp being from heat treated in this case. I know what heat affect you are referring to, but that usually comes out way lighter than the photo I showed above, and I am finding more and more that NOS is not 100% a good measuring stick of factory installed. Case and point the fan motor that Harold Wenner has on ebay right now. We all know that 99% or more of the 69 cars came with black painted fan motors. The NOS unit he is selling is bare steel. Other exampes out there as well. I have an NOS lower control arm - painted black. My factory units are bare steel, etc. If you look on Page 36 here you will see the photos of the original forging discoloring on the axle tubes and the restoration photos beside it. Parts like those, the drag arm, and sway bar are a gun metal blue - gray. Rear leaf springs were closer to black, but really a charcoal look. The clamp above was dead black. If it wasn't zinc phosphate then it was black zinc. I'll tap out of that discussion now I guess with nothing further to add. If anyone finds some markings on their 69 quick ratio steering box - please let us know what you find. Steve - yes, I just finished the detailing on the steering box casting. I really couldn't put the housing back in the cabinet and blast the letters as I have left a very thin film of WD-40 on the box to keep the moisture away from the phosphate and it would have been fly paper for the glass beads. But it does look nice with a stamped date code "shadow" nonetheless:  The main shaft and worm gear are re-assembled. 63 individual pieces in just this subassembly!  When we last saw the pitman arm shaft, I had just removed it from Ketchup, and Bill D. was chuckling. It did a decent job of brightening the copper, but there was still some spots of foreign materials pretty well fused onto the copper plate. I have learned the final solution: in between glass bead media change out in the cabinet, I cleaned it out and dropped a few scoops of walnut shells into the cabinet and tried it at 60psi. WOW, really did a great job with no fear of damage to the copper. Looks super now:  Just about ready for box re-assembly now!
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Jan/19/2018 at 9:59pm |
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Package mailed out today. I cleaned and plated the blower motor bolts so they look like new. Priority mail so you will likely see them Monday?
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kcsamc
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Joined: Sep/03/2011 Location: Denver, PA Status: Offline Points: 1974 |
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Posted: Jan/28/2018 at 11:09pm |
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Busy times. Working on the car, 30 - 40 hours a week now. I will try to keep up with postings, but like tonight, they will come late at night.
A couple weeks back, I snagged a great NOS part on ebay for a great price - NOS right smog log manifold - will use it for ceramic coating and hold my original as a spare. It came last week:  Still trying to load the box with NOS on the car! The steering box rebuild finally came to completion last night. Very happy with the look. Not quite so happy with how smooth the main worm shaft is - I found pitting on the bearing surfaces and I can feel it in the movement somewhat. Will have to see how I like it after all is assembled. Pictures of closing it up and then the final centerfold photos below. I found on a GM website that Moisture resistant EP grease is what is recommended for manual gear boxes. I picked up the Lucas version at NAPA:     I am happy with the finishes on the box - lots of work though. This past week, Bill D served up some awesome work on salvaging my old heater motor. I sent him my old one, plus a 1970 version of the same part number NOS, and he redid the metal work on the covers while it was apart, replated the hardware, went over the motor and moved the wires from the NOS unit over to my original one - Wala, a perfect Frankenstein. Bill you have done it again my friend. I just need to 400 grit sand, carefully mask, and paint it black for re-install. Thanks Bill - you are certainly the go to AMC electrical repair man!   BrookeP - you should be happy with this save! Thanks for the challenge a while back! In researching engine paint systems, I decided to use the KBS 69-72 Engine Blue after getting a sample and comparing to original and Seymour EN-66. EN-66 just is not a good match as kirkwood warned. Glad to say that my first choice with KBS Motor Paint is a great match, and is on order as we speak for prep to do the engine and pieces. Bottom: Seymour EN-66, Middle - Factory Paint (cleared), Top - KBS 69-72 AMC Blue  If you have been watching the For Sale postings then you have seen the results of the research and work to bring the correct brake booster stampings to reproduction offerings. I needed it to finish off this guy, and glad that project is now complete and helping out a few others as well:  A trick for those that use this stamp on their cars - if you use a good 2 part paint on the booster and let it dry a while first, get your wax and tar remover solvent and keep it close with a soft rag. Stamp the booster and if you don't like it, wipe it off carefully with the solvent rag (do not use thinners!). The above was my 3rd try after a dozen practice runs on painted metal plates. The metal on the booster is a bit ripply, and the "0" kept dropping out the right side, and I had to retry - it shouldnt be perfect but you don't want major losses of image either. Lastly, the latest reproduction project spawned from the need to get my dash in ASAP, is the need to make a new insulation pad for the cowl box. you can buy the firewall pad, but not the cowl insulation. My original was bad enough that it wasn't going back in, so if I had to make one, I might as well make an official pattern and start cutting them for everyone else. Finding material was fun! So tonight, I hand made a template from masonite and cut the first one that will go in my car this week. A reproduction offering on a limited basis will be posted in the next week or two. Shown here to see the beginning and end of the project. Went well!    My car will be the test mule for this reproduction! Moving on! Momentum is gaining! Edited by kcsamc - Jan/28/2018 at 11:14pm |
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