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69 SC Journey

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2013 at 10:32pm
OK - tonight we finish to prelude to the current storyline on the Scrambler.  At the end of the last posting, we were heading into December of this past year.  We got a little work done through the holidays, but as everyone knows, as the weather cools, and the list of holiday activities, etc increases, the car sit a little.  Still we were able to get some work done on the replacement hood.
 
I have always prescribed to the mantra that you shouldn't move forward with your project until you understand everything you have to do, and have everything lined up.  Well, we thought we were lined up to go when we started locating all the SC hood scoop holes.  I was planning on restoring my original hood scoop, which had been upstairs in a box for years.  I knew it wasn't in the greatest shape, but I have to say when I got it out, that the cracks, and breakouts at the fasteners, etc really got me a bit worried.  Add to that the years of age on the fiberglass, and I didn't know if I really wanted to try to fix it, and if I did, would it really hold up well?  We pushed forward with bolt hole placement with the old scoop, but the whole time, I was wondering if there was a new option out there to replace it.  I had already decided that the factory hood would get shined up in original condition and go on the wall upstairs.  I started thinking that maybe the original scoop deserved to be retired with it, and join it.  But what about that concours look I desired....
 
After Thanksgiving, I was bopping around here on the Forum, and found Stephen Stull's advertisement for a brand new scoop, and the photos convinced me I could be very happy to use it on my car.  I started conversation with Stephen, while starting the joining of the flapper box to the new hood:
 
Above:  I decided to glue (3M Panel bond) in the flapper box rather than drill holes and MIG plug weld the flapper box into the hood.  I had seen somewhere that those buying the fiberglass version are doing that, and I liked the idea to minimize panel warp.
 
At the same time, I needed to take care of dried out adhesive caulking on the frame - outerskin bond.  All three hoods I have are showing signs of the adhesive releasing, and I knew that I wanted to get them back together permanently.  The only problem is that you need some pressure on the frame for about 4 hours...  I ended up placing everything dense in the shop I could find on the frame to keep them together while the 2 part epoxy cured.  We tried hard to recreate the ugly looking caulking blobs in between the panels and how it oozed out!  We kept the original hood close for inspiration on the caulking globs - wasn't able to make them quite as ugly as the factory, but we did try!
 
Kind of thought the rig above looked ridiculous, but it got the job done.  The next day, we cleared everything off and flipped it over for a first view of the product:
 
Right around Christmas, we got the new scoop from Stephen Stull, and we were curious to see just how close it was to the original scoop.  Some photos we took:
 
What we found next was a temporary letdown, but it's just one of those things you have to deal with when you change directions in a project - no matter how small of a change.  We found that only (3) of the (8) scoop mounting holes we had just drilled in the new hood were in the location needed for the new scoop.  There is nothing wrong with the bolt location on the new scoop - they just happen to be different from my original (who knows how close each OEM unit was to each other either....)
 
It was clear that we were going to have to do something that kind of struck fear into me - I was going to have to MIG plug weld (5) holes shut right in the middle of my hood, and deal with any warpage that might occur.  We finally got up the courage to spend a complete Saturday afternoon on it on Jan. 5th.  Eric held the copper paddle tight against the inside of the hood, we surrounded the holes with a cool damp rag, and tentatively went at it.
 
Overall, the welding went well.  No appreciable warpage occurred - but we were holding our breath on one outside one.  We made a new hole template tracing for the new scoop, and set and drilled the new holes.  We were very happy to end the day with the new scoop dropping into place on the hood, and no longterm issues to deal with, Whew - dodged a bullet on that one!
 
With the good weather outside that Saturday, Eric also got to spot blast the back corner of the hood where it had some surface rust, and then we boxed up the new hood scoop and put it in safe storage for a little while.  Eric can now focus on stripping and bodywork on the hood.
 
After the nerve racking Saturday, I still had the welder out, and wanted to do something small and fun on the day after, on Sunday.  I had pulled out the old battery box tray and the replacement tray pan a month or so back, and decided I wanted to fab up the restored box.  The replacement tray was bought so long ago that it was getting a little surface rust on it!
 
I had separated the original brackets from the original tray (see below), and mounted up all three pieces to the front fender apron for correct angle / location.  I was then glad to be able to put to use the Hobart spot welder I picked up, nice used, this past year to spot weld the brackets onto the new tray, in the same manner that the factory attached them.
 
Getting everything cleaned up in the blaster, it was hung and shot with some self etching primer for safe keeping:
It was nice to have a small project for once that I could do from start to finish quickly and have just the right tools to do it well.  The right tools make all the difference!
 
Well, there you have it.  Last weekend we traveled to deliver our daughter back to college, and this week is Barret Jackson - looking forward to some couch time and watching the Scramblers cross the block tomorrow night!  (Lot # 499.1, and 500!)
 
Hopefully we'll get some shop time this Saturday.
 
I will be posting a couple other surprises over the next several days that relate to the story, and that followers should enjoy, and hope to report some progress on the actual car during the next weel or so.
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/17/2013 at 9:05pm
First - I must say, great job by Speed Channel (finally) on the coverage of the Scramblers.  And hats off to Matt Wilson and his old car for doing a great job promoting the underdog last night.
 
I promised to through in a few related stories to the main project over the next few posts.  Below is the first one.  Those of us that live in Eastern PA are blest with the proximately of the original and still very active epicenter of the antique car hobby.  The Carlisle events are only 56 miles away, and the Fall Hershey (grand daddy of them all) is only 33 miles for me.  For 25 years Fall Hershey has been my favorite fall destination.  For us diehards, it is what I call our "hunting season" (PA is known for it's avid deerhunters, but us AMC guys know that 80+ acres of car parts with only a handful of AMC parts is a much harder thing to hunt for than a white tail deer!).
 
Each year, I usually find something of an AMC treasure; most years it has been some sort of a memorabilia or dealership item, but parts are still out there too.  Out of good fortune during the 2011 hunting campaign at Fall Hershey I happened upon a license plate that just struck me that I knew from somewhere.  I asked the vendor to tel me about the plate - he proceeded to say it was an NOS AMC dealer plate - I knew something was up with it.  My AMC friend with me at the time said - yeah, that's the plate from the 1969 brochure cars.  Sure enough it was.  So 2011 yielded the front license plate that will go on the Scrambler:
 
In August 2012, the state of Pennsylvania finally approved use of vintage state license plates for antique cars.  I have always loved the purple and white PA antique plates, but for a number of years now, the state has made an ugly plate with the picture of somebody else's old car on it.  I quickly deciced that a vintage 1969 PA plate was on my shopping list for 2012 Fall Hershey.
 
A lot of vendors at Hershey have used PA plates for sale.  A couple have "NOS" plates, and I found one that even had "NOS" registration stickers.  Ultimately I made the decision to get a distinctive low number mint "NOS" plate for the rear, and a set of "NOS" 69 stickers.  While happy with it, if I ever found a similar plate with "390" on it, I would replace this one in a heartbeat, but I think this one will do fine.  So to go along with all the NOS hardware, it will have NOS licence plates to top it off!
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 8:12am
This post is to engage all those date coding and door tag gurus out there that know how to decifer the info.  I have provided some component part date coding above, but have always been interested in knowing what week my car may have been put together.
 
If anyone knows the answer - lets hear from you!
 
My door tag has the following information:
 
       Body ID:   61668
       Paint: SPECIAL (not that this should help,but since there are so many variants...)
       Body Tag No.:  E101759
 
It's cold out in the shop today, but think I'll try to warm it up as best I can and go do some work on the car Smile
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theamcguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 1:34pm
Kevin, the week of:
17 May 1969 ended with Body Tag Number 99553

the week of:
23 May 1969 ended with Body Tag Number 105614

Therefore your car was built somewhere between 17-23 May 1969 
Bill Strobel
Fayetteville, NC
1967 Rebel SST
1969 SC/Rambler
1972 Hornet Sportabout
1976 Matador Brougham
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 6:20pm
Bill - kind thanks for providing some great detail information.  A couple questions come to mind.  I checked a calendar for 1969.  May 17 was a Saturday, May 23 was a Friday.  Would the day differences have indicated the actual days they worked that week?  Looks like May 26 would have been Memorial Day, so maybe they cut off on Friday for the long weekend?  I guess who knows.
 
Anyway, to help a bit further:  The trunk date code is 51669, and I believe i had one of the interior door panels stamped as late as May 20th (I need to check this fact for sure).
 
Doing a little math off your information above, depending on the actual number of days they worked that week, and assuming that the body numbers represented a sequential build, would predictably put an assembly day of 5/20 or 5/21.
 
Thanks for your help!
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 9:01pm
Heated up the shop today, and Eric and I got some time to work on the car.  Eric got to scraping and sanding on the inside of the hood:
 
I had decided that I wanted to wrap back around and work on the front core support.  If you recall earlier in the storyline, I had to take the original core support off and replace it with a donor unit.  Many may wonder why I have so many panels to replace. Well to do the work I had to do today, I pulled the original core support down from upstairs to use as a template and documented the following damage from its war time tour of duty:
Lower box, front side above
Lower box, back side below
Yeah, that bad....
 
 
But we're not done yet, top box here below:
 
The above is a testament to how this car in particular, and how many more like it were just abused, all in the name of going fast!  There was no way I was going to try to fix that...
 
The donor core support was welded on back in the mid-90s, but I had left one portion of the change-over undone for years - taking care of the SC/Rambler unique right hood plate pin addition:
 
Today was going to be the day to fabricate the new plate for the donor core support.  After evaluating the attachment of the original, I decided to not try removing the original due to spot weld melt, and I also wanted to redrill the hole fresh through all pieces.  So we started with a gauge thickness check:
The steel on this plate is thicker than the panel sheet metal, so I wanted to make sure.  0.060 equates to 16gage mild steel, and I just happened to have a box of scrap metal from a project back in the 80s with pieces of 16gage - I was in luck today!
 
Next step, create a paper template from an index card.  Just for history, and to help anyone else out with the correct sizing of this SC special peice, I put the dimensions right on the template:
Time to cut metal, grind and double check to the template:
 
Metal cleaned up, sprayed with weldthru primer, and clamped in place with location marks.
 
Time to get the spot welder out!  In this case, the Hobart HSW15 hand spot welder wasn't 100% up to the task.  It is made to do up to 1/8" total thickness - in this case with (2) 19gage and (1) 16gage, we were over the max, and it showed.  Took quite a bit of heating to get to a decent weld, and a look close to the factory, but I think it turned out to be a reasonable copy of the original:
 
 
A quick shot of etch primer to prep it for the next time the 2K primer gun comes out, and I was finished with this project until the hood is mounted and we can double check the hood pin hole location together and then drill the holes in the core support.
 
LOL LOL, worked over 4 hours on a 1 5/8" x 3 3/16" piece of metal!  I said this was about the journey!  Don't ever ask me how many hours I have into the car when it is done - I never kept track, and by seeing all the more I got done today, I can only image what the final total will be.  But it was fun today, and that's all that matters.  Air tools, bench grinders, welders, paper templates, micrometers, scrap metal, and some paint - what else could you ask for on a winter Saturday?
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ohio AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 9:17pm
It's great following along, I admire your skill and attention to detail! Just wondering if you've ever considered media blasting your body panels? I routinely have this done whenever donor parts are used, or if there is heavy paint build up. It's money well spent as it removes every trace of old paint and surface rust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 10:30pm
Ohio AMX: I do selective media blasting on panels. For instance, the donor core support was media blasted before welding on. Also, a lot of the new sheet metal was media blasted this past summer (see previous post). I am a bit worried about the amount of media blasting done on the flat panels on the top of the car and have never done hoods, trunks, or roofs that way, worrying a bit about warpage. I was even concerned with the large quarter panels, but with just a light strip of the factory primer and a little surface rust, I tried to keep the gun moving.

Truth be told, I just hate doing open media blasting, and will avoid it where possible on large pieces that don't have pitting rust. We did media blast the corner of the hood that had some rust on it, but kept it minimal. I also hate the trapped media in double paneled pieces like the hood.

I do plan to media blast the whole underside of the car this spring or summer, but don't relish trying to clean out the frame boxes when done.... All pieces that fit I the blast cabinet will get done by media for sure!
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amxdreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/19/2013 at 11:13pm
Great Job Kevin! I love seeing cars being built to this level and the documentation that goes along with it.
Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theamcguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/20/2013 at 9:42am
Originally posted by kcsamc kcsamc wrote:

Bill - kind thanks for providing some great detail information.  A couple questions come to mind.  I checked a calendar for 1969.  May 17 was a Saturday, May 23 was a Friday.  Would the day differences have indicated the actual days they worked that week?  Looks like May 26 would have been Memorial Day, so maybe they cut off on Friday for the long weekend?  I guess who knows.
 
Anyway, to help a bit further:  The trunk date code is 51669, and I believe i had one of the interior door panels stamped as late as May 20th (I need to check this fact for sure).
 
Doing a little math off your information above, depending on the actual number of days they worked that week, and assuming that the body numbers represented a sequential build, would predictably put an assembly day of 5/20 or 5/21.
 
Thanks for your help!


The information came from here:

F.H. Brodek, Car Build Dates - 1969 Series, American Motors Corporation Interdepartmental Letters, January 28, February 25, April 23, May 26, and September 19, 1969.


The days by and large line up week by week but there a few odd balls where one week ends one a Friday or in some cases a Thursday.   

Bill Strobel
Fayetteville, NC
1967 Rebel SST
1969 SC/Rambler
1972 Hornet Sportabout
1976 Matador Brougham
AMCRC. AMCWC, AMO, NAMDRA

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