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69 SC Journey

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kmanAMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kmanAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/08/2013 at 4:51pm
I'm also from the Northern Lancaster area (Manheim) and my father and his friends told me of a S/C Rambler that used to run at Maple Grove! I can only assume that this is the one. Fantastic job! Looking forward to seeing the end results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScrambledEgg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/08/2013 at 7:35pm
Very nice write up, very nice job and very nice car. Glad to see you are documenting this Kevin.
 
Your finding of the various colored paint/primers underneath may be the same thing that is a very well documented use as performed by another manufacturer - Ford did this on many of its Mustangs in the 69-70 era (and possibly other years). Many Mustangs were primed with red oxide primer (most people use DP (LF)-74 to duplicate this color/look today. Many others were done with what they call 'slop grey' (again very well documented). Other Mustangs had brown, blue, green and yes with mettalic in the paint. Ford, in an effort to save money would sometimes blend what colors were left over at the end of a shift, or just save the straight color paint. These 'leftovers' were served up for/on undercarriages the next day and or shift.
 
I am not sure if that is what may be the case with your car. If there are some some AMC retirees here, they may be able to remember the factory 'ways' and either vindicate or negate this.
 
Anyway, just one theory.    
 
PS, here is one thread on the subject for 'slop grey'. Within the link they talk about green paint being used and there is also photos of the green and the slop grey.
 
 
 


Edited by ScrambledEgg - Jan/08/2013 at 7:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlazinJavelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/08/2013 at 7:54pm
Loving the story and the pictures so far. Body's work is looking great. Looking forward to the chapter on the engine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/08/2013 at 9:47pm
Time to finish off 2011 timeline actions tonight. 
One thing I failed to mention about work done in the early 90s, was the engine bay and core support work.  It is obvious that this car, like many lived a very hard and short life.  Both the lower and upper core support boxes were crushed in the center - looks like they used them to get leverage to remove the engine at one time or another.  One day in 1992, the local fire department dropped off a green 69 American 4 dr by chance and told me they were going to practice jaws of life on the car, but I could have anything off the front I wanted as long as it was done within 3 days.  I quickly removed the fenders, hood, and used a reciprocating saw to cut off the front aprons and core support.  I would later graft that green core support onto the front after blasting the whole engine bay in 1993:
 
The only problem from 1993 - 2011 was that the priming work was no longer any good, and it was lacquer based, so it had to go, so we restripped in 2011 and worked it back up from wash primer through 2K, and also took care of the dings to the firewall (and the vintage hammered area on the right side for more header clearance I guess):
 
Continuing on, Eric scotch stripped both front fender wells and prepared for priming:
You will notice some filler on the front apron.  We discovered that someone had drilled extra holes in the apron and mounted several things in times past.  Plug welding and light smoothing was necessary.
 
Upon full undercoat removal, we discovered that several spot welds on the left front subframe were broken loose - we would have never discovered them if we had not removed all the undercoating.  Below are photos of the fix.  I ended up drilling plug weld holes in between the original spot welds to preserve the original weld look, then used deep throat c-clamps to close the metal gap and mig welded the two subframe pieces:
A grinder is still my best friend, after putting the mig gun down.  Maybe someday, I'll do plug welds on sheet metal like a pro.... (above all fixed!)
 
 
Did you know that most of your front sheet metal panels have date codes on them?  Can't see most of them until you get the paint off, but here is an example of one on the left front shock tower:
The date above is April 28, 1969.  The latest date code I found so far is 52069 on one of the inside door panels.  It would make sense that most sheet metal would be a month or so in advance of the actual build.  The cowl boxes, door posts, etc also have date codes stamped into them.
 
Well, as we neared the end of 2011, I wanted to get ready to finally place the NOS left rear quarter panel on.  I pulled it down from the wall it had been hanging on, prepped it with the necessary plug weld holes, and weld thru primer on the lips, and masked it off, to apply the first full coat of white topcoat that I got to spray on the car.  As I stated before, I don't want rust EVER again on this car, so before installing the new quarter - I wanted it as protected on the inside as it is on the outside, and since you can't get to all the places after it is installed, I shot the hole inside, later, we will scuff it down in the trunk area when we do the full paint job:
Protected much better than factory that is for sure!
 
The pictures below are of the inside of the original quarter - these photos should strike fear into the heart of every American owner.  The panel doesn't look that bad from the outside, pin holes, and the typical circle spot; most of these areas you really can't get to:
\
 
Well that about gets us to the end of 2011.  Sometime I'll have to go into a little deeper discussion on the problems I found with the NOS quarter panel - nothing is ever easy!
 
Next up, we'll move into this past year of 2012.
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/09/2013 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by kmanAMX kmanAMX wrote:

I'm also from the Northern Lancaster area (Manheim) and my father and his friends told me of a S/C Rambler that used to run at Maple Grove! I can only assume that this is the one. Fantastic job! Looking forward to seeing the end results.


This is probably the one your family remembers. I have been told about a Scrambler that used to live in Reinholds, way back. I was told is was painted black at one point and sold before I came to the area in 1988. My car lived the early part of its life in Ephrata.
Kevin Shope
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67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/09/2013 at 10:34pm
Well, we've raced through about 20 years or so of restoration history so far.  As the past year started, work was a little slow with only modest methods of heating the shop, but things got a little busier as the weather turned.  For this winter, we now finally have the water heated floors to keep the cold out of our bones.  To keep heating costs down, we try to work most on weekends.
 
I started to turn my attention towards doing some work above the beltline early on.  As this story continues you will start to see as I have, that just about every panel will be touched with a welder or replaced or both.  The car lived a hard life at the hands of young adults, and it has plenty of battle scars to prove it.
 
Most everyone that remembers the 70s, remembers placing speakers in the rear deck of the car  -this car was no different.  So, we had to get the welder out and plug weld and smooth all the screw holes in the rear deck from the now long gone speakers:
 
We have all heard different stories about where Scramblers were finished and with which batch, etc.  I won't claim to be an expert on how much or if Hurst was involved with any finish assembly with these cars.  I have talked to some owners who say that the roof stripe on their original car started just slightly above the rear window gasket on the white paint.  That would at least point to the possibility that those cars were decaled after leaving the main assembly line - maybe even at Hurst, but who really knows.  Documented below here is a photo of the rear window channel clearly showing that the stripe was put on while on the main assembly line prior to window installation.  This is the way this car will be presented when restored, as it will be correct for this car:
 
I decided that I needed to document the exact location of the front edge of the decal on the roof before removal.  I used tracing paper to get an exact position. 
 
I scanned this tracing paper and you can download a copy of it at:
 
 
Getting a tip to use a pinstripe removal disk to remove the roof stripe, I spent several evenings carefully removing the roof decal.  I ended up burning through 1 1/2" disks doing it.  Buy (2) for starters if you have to do the same - that origiinal stripe is baked on!  The last little bit of removal documented for history's sake:
 
Off and on during 2012, I have spent some time working on the roof.  There are a number of shallow dimples, mainly along the crown.  When my dad first saw the car, he laughed and said - "you know why they are probably along the roof edge?  probably because the burnout pits were so loud, a lot of times the crew members would chop the roof to get the driver's attention".  Well, who knows if that is right - but at least it makes for a good war story...
 
Careful stripping of the roof provided information to how they seamed the roof at the c-pillar.  Factory did a solid weld (as seen by the raised line in the photo below), and then covered with a thin layer of light pink body filler - yes, they used some sort of filler in 1969.  There is also a brazed spot at the rear window channel and over filled with lead there.
 
I have discovered a flaw in the roof line on every Scrambler I have looked at since seeing it in mine this spring (probably on the Rogues too, but haven't checked non-69 cars yet).  If you look at the drip rail from the rear of the car, you will see that the right side sucks in just above where you see the weld line in the photo above.  The left side looks much more in line with the rest of the drip line.  This is causing me some trouble getting a nice feather edge on re-application of filler on the c-pillar.  I believe that what I get when done will better looking than the factory job that was done, but there is no way to correct the drip rail body line.
 
First pass filling in the photo below,  end product is just a thin skin over some shallow imperfections.  The left side is about done now, and I hope to do some primer shooting on the roof sometime this next month in 2013:
 
Before signing off for today, I thought I'd show one Scrambler only modification that I never knew about until last year.  I had seen the mangled cowl rib seam in the front wheelwell area, but never really thought much about it.  After getting a copy of the factory document - 3635636, I saw that the mangled section in the wheel well area was a factory modification on SC's only:
 
OK, so let's be honest now, how many SC fans/owners knew that?  Hands up!  I have to admit, I didn't know it until I put the document together with the physical characteristic on the torn down car.  I guess they were worried about front tire clearance?  Seems odd that there would be concern in the front wheel wells...
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/10/2013 at 8:16pm
Spring and summer 2012 seemed to pass by pretty quickly with yard work, etc. but we did accomplish a lot during a couple weeks.  By mid-spring i was anxious to get the NOS quarter layed up on the left side.  i had been over 15 years since it had a panel on it, and it was over due.  I great friend of mine in the AMC hobby lives close by, and is a lifelong body shop man, so I asked him to provide moral, mental and physical support to the fitting of the panel.  Unobtainium is not something you want to risk messing up!
 
At the factory, the quarter panels were applied to the shell, and then the roof / c-pillar.  As I had stared at the panel and then the body - I knew we were in for some challenges.  How do you get the panel lip up under the c-pillar?  I won't go into details, but it took both me and my friend's experiences and wits to cut the least, and protect the integrity of everything, but that was just the start of the issues.  We found that the fit around the wheel lip and rear tail panel were very tight.  It wouldn't fit over the rolled lip the way it should.  We decided to let it sit and think about it a bit, and picked it back up a week or two later when we had time.  When my friend came back the next time he said - I think we need to jack the body under the rear leaf spring front support area.  So we got the jack, some long boards, and put a couple pumps on the handle - all of the sudden the panel just slid onto the wheel lip.
 
Even though our measurements when we put the car on the rotissiere indicated that we didn't any appreciable body distortion, the center of the car was sagging just a little, and just enough to keep the panel from fitting right.  Boy was I relieved to see that problem go away!  But we still had one more challenge - how to get the rolled lip without distorting the quarter panel.  My friend was braver than I and asked what kind of hammers I had, we decided on an old 2 lb copper hammer that was my grandfathers from way back.  It was just the right tool for the job,  Careful springing of the inner panel with a block of wood and using the copper hammer, we got the wheel lip to look very factory!  Photo below just after the battle was over!:
 
I still today have some welding on the panel to finish so that I can move over the right panel and start removing it, but am hoping to report progress on that in a couple weeks.
 
As mid-summer approached, I was looking forward to taking the July 4th - Boston, MA AMO Nationals weekend off, and had plans to do some large quantity sand blasting efforts before heading north.  I was undecided about whether to try to get the rotissiere outside this year and do the whole bottom of the car, or to work on exterior panels.  I decided for the panels, so that I would have work for months into the future.  First on the agenda, get all the NOS and original panels down out of storage and prepare them for blasting:
 
In all, we decided to work on the left NOS door, right NOS quarter, NOS rear tailpanel, NOS right front fender, and original gravel pan.  If we had time we would try to get to the left fender. We had one week, which I thought was a lot, but if everyone remembers the weekend after the 4th was nearly 100 degrees & 100% humidity.  Yeah - not good for blasting outside, and I knew that I had to get primer down ASAP after blasting.
 
One natural resource we have on-site is trees.  We made good use of them, bailing wire, boards, buckets and a big Harbor Freight tarp to make a cheap but very effective outdoor "blasting box".  And because of the trees - we had shade each day until noon to keep the heat down:
 
We didn't have time to blast the left front fender at this time, we did it later as I'll document next time.
 
What I didn't bargain for was the necessary body work afterwards.   The gravel pan was a bit wavy from dents, etc, the NOS door & right front fender had surface imperfections and dimples from shelf wear, and I found out that the rear tailpanel had a factory spot weld blow through on one of the taillight boxes, AND that it was not exactly correct for 1969.  Did you know that the 1969 panel is different than the '67-68?  Well I didn't until after blasting.  For 67-68, they punched the holes for the rear emblem, and they used thin sheet metal tabs for the wire harness, vs 1969 having resistance welded on "nail heads" - to be used with small black wire hangers.  I'll detail that more at another time, as I haven't figured out what I will do about the harness tab issue yet.  So, we still had some welding, grinding, and smoothing of the panels before painting.  The shop was full, and was kind of fun to move from one panel to the next doing different things for the couple days we had:
 
 
Running out of days, we got the panels hung around the shop first thing Tuesday morning before the AMO Nationals and got ready to wash primer and 2K each panel inside and out - it was close quarters!
 
Five panels in all primed inside and out.  Boy that took a number of trips back the workbench for more paint mixing!  It was a long day, but at least the goal was accomplished, and we could close the door and go enjoy some vacation, AMC flea market and car show for the next couple days.  It was nice having Eric around the whole time too, as he was a big help during the sandblasting process running equipment, and then helping on the panels as we prepped them for painting.
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 8:46pm
Tonight, I guess we'll talk about front fenders.  Some may be wondering why I am changing out the right front fender, rear tail panel and left door with NOS.  Well, all had body damage to some extent;  the right front fender was screwed up on the lip, a heavy crease in the fender that ripped open the wheel lip - not totally unfixable, but definitely not desirable to use.  The rear tail panel was hit at some time - almost looks like the forks on a forktruck hit it, making it nearly impossible to fix and make it look right.  The left door has a heavy crease below the bottom body line and split on the inside of the door at the vent wing.  The door was probably very fixable, but Lee Peterson nearly begged me to take the door he had back in the early 90s and use it on the car, so I agreed.
 
After getting back from the AMO Nationals, I still had the outdoor blast area setup, and a left fender that needed to be cleaned up.  First step was undercoating removal.  Eric spent some time with a propane torch and a putty knife to remove all the stuff seen in the photo below:
 
Bit rusty up around the front headlight, actually good to get them off at restoration and repaint underneath, as the undercoat only went as far as the rubber seal to the fender.
 
Fender date codes are stamped on the backside of the lip where it bolts to the apron back near the hood hinges.  Making out the complete date code without taking them off is difficult, you might see the distortion from the top side, but making out all the numbers is doubtful.  After cleaning off the sealers, and paint - the code on the left front fender became clear:
 
Sorry, the photo is upside down.  It reads:  A5  1  69   (May 1, 1969).  Guess the "A" is American?  Again, consistent with other date codes found.
 
Looking around at the front fenders before stripping, I documented some factory imperfections in the paint.  Pebble Beach would be agast if a car drove onto its show field looking like this - but I think it is cool, and may decide to at least replicate the taping error one on the car:
You can see the above, where the red was not fully covered when the white was sprayed.  A small triangular section of red was still showing when the factory masked it off.
 
Below - you can see that the black pin striping, which was supposed to straddle the red-white paint edge, didn't quite do the job as it nears the wheel lip on the right front fender.  I think I'll try to make it straight on the restoration!
The right fender is now retired, and will act as reference material for the restoration, and hang on the wall upstairs as wall art.
 
After blasting the left fender and getting wash and 2K primer on the inside, we were anxious to do a test mounting of both fenders and do some body work on the outside while hard mounted to the car.  Pouring through the many boxes of parts removed back in 1991 (and yess, well tagged) I found every not and bolt but the front fender clips and bolts.  We searched everywhere...  While I still haven't given up, I did want to move on.  Searching the parts books, I found out that the American front clips are the same as the 63-64 Classic/Ambassador, and I knew a friend was parting out one, and he was more than willing to help.  We got the clips in about a week, cleaned them up and used some bolts from other teardown projects.  These clips are getting as rare as hens teeth (take note everyone - make sure you take these off any parts car or junckyard car you find!!!!)
 
The Scrambler finally had four fenders back on and actually looked like a car again, even if only for a short time!
 
Time to get the holes drilled in the new right fender.  Tracing seemed to be the only accurate way to get the positions accurate.  Starting with the original fender:
 
Now move it over to the new fender:
 
Emblem fit?  Check - they haven't been on the car in 2 decades!
 
One last major project exists on the right front fender.  We need to roll the lip like the factory fender.  Probably later in early February, I'll be able to document the completion of that effort.
 
Won't be able to continue the thread until Sunday night.  When we continue, we'll be moving on to the hood and efforts to retire the original hood with another replacement.
 
I am hoping that this thread provides not just a log of work done, but also helps someone else figure out how to get something done on their car, or provide a piece of information that will help you also.  I definitely don't know all that much as compared to others who have restored car after car, but I have spent most of my life learning and doing bodywork.  My dad had a home shop when I was growing up in the 70s, so I got to work on a wide variety of 60s and 70s cars doing bodywork, and near restoration.  Falcons, Novas, Beetles, Mustangs, Olds Cutlass, even a full restoration of a 71 Jeepster were just part of the experiences I was priviledged with growing up.  Hoping now to repeat a little of that for the next generation!
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcsamc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2013 at 7:12pm
When we last left the storyline, it was the fall of 2012, just a few months back.  Having the front fenders temporarily mounted, I now had the chance to do some primer blocking work, and got to try out the newer tech Durablocks and Guide Dust.  This process is perhaps my favorite part of restoration - the blocking.  It is fun working out those final imperfections.  Back in the 1970s and 80s when I did a lot of work with my dad, we just had  SW Super Combo lacquer primer, a simple 5" sanding block and spray bomb black lacquer (guide coat!) for this job, but I have to say that the Durablocks in 11" length are really nice for this process, and the 2k primers can be blocked forever.  The front fender and left door during some early blocking:
 
After hosting the PA AMC crowd for a fall AMC picnic, we got back to work on the car in November.  I had decided that Eric's winter project was going to be the sanding and prep work on the new hood, but we were going to have to work on all the SC modifications together for him to be able to do the bodywork himself.  The original hood played host to one too many after race parties back in the day, and there is no way to restore it properly.  All the reflections in the photos here are dents!:
 
The story on the replacement for the original hood (which will now become retired wall art upstairs soon), begins many years back.  I got a call from a friend back in the early 90s telling me if I was game to come down to center city Philadelphia with my truck, that he had a lead on a bunch of used 69 American parts.  So we took off for one of the rough neighborhoods of the city and found basically a bunch of panels, and mechanical parts in the basement.  We split up the booty (all free, just to get it out of there), and I got a 69 hood in very good condition.
 
About the same time, my dad was clued into the junkyard location of a trashed out Scrambler here in PA.  Turned out the yard owner would sell me the whole car if I wanted, but I wasn't overly interested in transporting a whole car, so we made him a deal for a certain dollar amount (ultra low figure) that he would let us take everything we wanted off the car in an 8 hr day.  With truck, tools and burning torch in hand, 3 of us went at this Scrambler below (RIP...) and took everything of any value.  The hood was even more toasted than mine, but we burned out the flapper box and kept it:
 
To start the new hood project - we drilled out the spot welds from the old hood side on the above salvage SC flapper, and had it ready to use on our hood:
 
First step for working the hood, was getting a fix on the original location.  Eric did the tracings, learning the art of pencil rubbings:
 
During a conversation about how the factory made the 1500 hoods, we were able to imagine an engineer at the plant taking a piece of hood sheetmetal, and making a template to be used on all the hoods, and probably a prep worker cut and drilled the hoods from the template.  Wrong!  While I can't say how they did it - we were able to overlay the one hood cutout (salvage) over the original hood and it is clear that the cutouts from hood to hood do not match (look close, you will see that the salvage hood cutout is much larger than the car's hood):
 
We did our best to make the hole template work well to fit up to the salvage flapper.  After using the original hood scoop and tracings, we had all the holes, including the hood pin holes in a good position to move forward (or so we thought):
 
Eric, finishing the rough edge filing
Factory original scoop in place - fits!
 
Next posting, we'll pick up and finish the major hood metal work done in December and just after the first of the year.
Kevin Shope
1964 Classic 660
67 Rogue 290-4V 4spd Conv
A-Scheme SC/Rambler (69 SC JOURNEY)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote underdog57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2013 at 1:27pm
Very nice progress Kevin . A highly detailed job . Be nice to see it as it progresses and eventualy finished
Bob
SC/RAMBLER1969 More Sc/Rambler info than you can handle . http://scrambler1969.blogspot.com/
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