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65 classic 660 lead fuel additive questions

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65Classy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 65Classy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2017 at 5:39pm
Ok it didn't sound like an actual thing but ya never know it's a thought haha. I was also wondering what transmission my car has and what all else would bolt to it. Reading around this forum i can't find anything idk if I'm just not awesome at navigating yet but figured I'd ask. Also I was wondering if the newer like 70+ transmissions would use the same linkages so I could retain my column shift I have the 3speed manual on the column appreciate the knowledge as I'm learning the amc as I dive further into this rambler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2017 at 6:00am
What you read/heard is probably referring to the reduction of ZDDP in oils that occurred several years ago. As long as you;re running stock valve springs you are fine. Put in heavy racing valve springs (over 300# per inch) and you can wipe a cam unless you use a high pressure additive or special oil with it -- usually ZDDP (which is a type of zinc). Same thing as the unleaded gas scare... some extra wear may occur, but for normal driving there is no concern. Heavily worked towing and racing vehicles will experience noticeable wear, but not normal drivers.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 3:14am
These kinds of debates are endless and infuriating. The only way you ever get to the bottom of something like this is to stop listening to other people and just experiment on your own. Find what works for you. That's the only way you ever get a true answer that you can trust.

Try running unleaded with your iron seats and see what happens. If it wears out the seats, then you've found the clear answer: you need hard seats. At that point you install hard seats and keep driving. Lesson learned. If it never wears out the seats then it's also debate solved: you don't need hard seats.

When I rebuilt my 232 myself, the valve guide seals that Fel-pro sent me and listed for my engine fit loosely on the valves, which seemed odd to me. I asked this forum if that was right and there was all kinds of debate over whether or not they were supposed to fit like that. With no clear answer, I finally just had to install them anyway and find out for myself. It burned oil like crazy....so I had my answer: NO. I tore the engine back apart and installed different seals. Problem solved and lesson learned. Debate over for me.

This is largely why I ask for people's advice on here and then walk away and do my own thing anyway. It's the only way you ever really know for sure: find out for yourself. Sometimes the hard way.

I believe in finding things out for yourself and forging your own path....which really pisses off the older guys on this forum who think they know everything and that I know nothing because of how young I am. At the end of the day, if whatever you're doing works well, then it's perfectly acceptable and don't let people tell you otherwise.  


Edited by FSJunkie - Jan/14/2017 at 3:18am
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 8:28am
Well, that approach certainly works, and it can be hard to wade through the opinions and separate them from facts.

I wonder if you had the old umbrella seals (which fit loosely) or the wrong modern positive stem seals? Umbrellas fit loosely and aren't that great, just better than nothing. Old technology. Newer heads require a little machining on hte guides to fit modern positive seals, but well worth it.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 9:37am
Because of the torque tube you are limited to the transmissions available at the time. Frank has indicated that those would be the T96 and T14. If you have the light duty T96 in it now then for sure say the other transmission is better. Having never done it I could not advise as to what has to be done to make it fit but probably a better clutch would also be part of the package. Finding a T14 for a torque tube car could be an adventure in itself.

70+ newer transmissions are not going to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 9:57am
If I had thought of the possibility of changing to a T14 when the T96 failed, maybe the car would have one in it now. No complaints with the automatic though, it has been working well for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 11:49am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:



I wonder if you had the old umbrella seals (which fit loosely) or the wrong modern positive stem seals? Umbrellas fit loosely and aren't that great, just better than nothing. Old technology. Newer heads require a little machining on hte guides to fit modern positive seals, but well worth it.
They were the hard white nylon umbrellas made by Fel-pro that come in all the engine rebuild kits from EPWI and Engine Pro. They were completely loose on the valves. The valve stems measures .371 and the nylon umbrellas were .376. That's more clearance than the valve stems have to their guides. Might as well have no seals at all. It burned A LOT of oil. The original umbrellas fit more tightly and the ones I installed later to solve the oil burning had to actually be lightly hammered onto the valve stems because they fit so tight. Nylon umbrellas are supposed to fit very tight to the valve to keep oil from running down it. They have to SEAL to the valve to do their job. Nobody on this forum seemed to know that at the time. I had to find out on my own.

-----------------
Sounds like most guys on here have told you it's ok to use unleaded gas, so go ahead and try it. See what happens. Then you'll know for yourself. If you wear out your valve seats, I'll be here. I personally wore out my valve seats on unleaded, but every case is different and my engine isn't your engine. Yours might be different. You just have to find out for yourself.

There is no universal truth. Nobody's opinion applies to all cases.


Edited by FSJunkie - Jan/14/2017 at 12:39pm
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 65Classy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 3:00pm
All in all I really just want to be able to drive the car and be able to maintain it and find parts for it when needed. It's sad that parts aren't readily available for older vehicles anymore. I agree with you fsjunkie I do the same thing I look for the generalized knowledge and take what I can from it and apply it to my issues. I've had myself and my knowledge and several others look into this motor in it currently and we've come to a point where it's like do I rebuild a motor from 1965 and run it knowing that eventually in 10-15 years parts availability will be pretty scarce. Look at Jay Leno he cnc machines most of his parts for his classics we've just gotta make due with what we can make work. I love the car and it's style and honestly want to drive it and enjoy it I'm probably going to end up putting a modern decline in it piss of who it may but really its my time and money and my car it's worth the work in my mind and it may not be an object of perfection but it'll work and I can find parts when needed. Don't get me wrong I respect the purity thing I'm from Michigan lol. But alas. I appreciate forums like this and the people in the m with the knowledge they have and share without it we'd all have a bunch of vintage cars sitting in our yards lol. If anything I'll have a bunch of 232 parts for everyone I'll give away for free because I know what their worth to the people that actually need them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 4:42pm
 You're gonna have a long and fruitless search if you try to find a torque-tube T-14 .

Borg Warner never started making the T-14 till 1967 or 68,  the last AMC torque tube car was the 1966.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 65Classy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2017 at 5:08pm
That's why I may just fabricate in a whole new driveline. Parts to do what I need or want don't exist or are rare. It sucks I'm going to data with an inline 6 either jeep or I've heard Ford is a reliable one as well. I'll most likely get a 5 speed and run the shifter through the floor and figure out a rear end setup. I wanted to do a disc brake upgrade at some point anyway so really it saves the hassle of finding parts that would work with the stock setup I can just swap and make work as needed.
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