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65 Classic 327 V8 M-/10 no reverse. |
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Kamikazi02
AMC Apprentice Joined: Feb/11/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2015 at 3:16pm |
Help needed in Germany,
I am stationed in Germany and Have my 65 Classic 327 V-8 3sp Auto that for some reason has decided to loose its ability to back up. Pulled the car out of winter hibernation and took it for a drive to work and noticed the reverse was slow to engage. Skip to today when I was adjusting the brakes and started to drive put it reverse and had to rev the engine to get it to actually go into gear. Got it home tried to back into the garage and no bueno!!!! Back story and facts, -Tranny was rebuilt less than 5K and has not had any issues until after sitting this winter. - Pan started leaking a had to replace, Thank you German Road Inspectors!!!!! - I replaced the pan gasket and put in the only fluid I could find, Mobile Multi Vehicle ATF Synthetic Blend, states its good with Dexron https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-transmission-fluid/multi-vehicle-atf Now I have car back in garage and when I put it into reverse I get no action.... Ideas and Help needed, I have TSM and basic tools around. Could it be rear band adjustment? Could I be just plan screwed. Not a lot of classic car mechanics in Europe that even have a clue on Ramblers, The closest thing we have are the inline 6 sold in France as a Renault... Below the rebuild invoice, Rebuilt in 2001 Less than 5,000 on it.... REMOVE AND INSTALL TRANSMISSION 335.00 OVERHAUL/REBUILD TRANSMISSION 562.50 BANNER ASSEMBLY SET 239.27 FILTER 17.00 FRONT PUMP BUSHING 19.63 EXTENTION HOUSING BUSHING 23.78 FRONT BAND 129.95 REAR BAND 129.95 ATF2 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID 45.00 F2X TORQUE CONVERTER 195.95 SIDE MOUNTS (CROSSMEMBER) 87.00 S/H SHIPPING/HANDLING MOUNTS 26.67 TRANSMISSION MOUNT 48.00 I will pay for meal and beer if you figure out a way to Fly to Germany to fix it. Todd
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Todd D Weingeroff
1965 Rambler Classic 770 Convertible, AC/PS/Auto 327 Pics located http://photobucket.com/65Convert770 |
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greasygt III
AMC Addicted Joined: May/27/2014 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 676 |
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Might be a dumb question but....does it have the proper amount of fluid?
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83 Spirit GT
79 Ranchero GT 460 |
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1970390amx
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/11/2008 Location: colorado Status: Offline Points: 3314 |
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Did this problem start when you changed the pan because of the leak? And as has been asked is it full? I assume all three forward gears work correctly. If it is full and all three forward gears work I would check line pressure with a gauge it should be higher in reverse than in driver or neutral. You should have a service manual for accurate numbers. If you have good pressure numbers I would suspect a rear band problem. Could be out of adjustment or broken, could also be a problem with the servo that controls the rear band.
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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box |
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Josh
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/11/2008 Location: Utica/Rome NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Try and find a shop that does work on classic Volvos or Jaguars. They used Borg Warner automatic transmissions that are very similar, if not the same as your Rambler's.
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‘66 Marlin, 327/M10
‘70 Rebel Machine, 390/M12 ‘74 Javelin AMX, 401/727 ‘80 Concord DL, 258/904 ‘98 Cherokee, 4.0/AW4 |
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Kamikazi02
AMC Apprentice Joined: Feb/11/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Update, I have been reading the internet in is entirety trying to find info on if this is the BWM10 or the M8 I saw FARNA state its an M8 and there is no such beast as an M10. SO with this info I started sniffing around the Jaguar forums figured I might have a chance of finding a Mechanic that knows them a bit. Finding out Germans are not a fan of British cars here either!
TO respond to a few of the questions asked. -After the gasket was replaced it drove at least 1K with out issues. I validated the fluid level and found it was over the full mark by about a .5 inch when operating at temperature. I drained the excess fluid by way of removing the filler tube and getting a level just under the full mark at temperature. No change in in operation. (Fluid is correct) - I read on the Jag forums that if the Low gear doesn't work but the rest of the drive gears work then it is the rear band... Well tried that and all work, 2-1-L all work when put into gear. - Started car this AM when it was cold tried all these test again just to see if it was different when warm or cold. No change. I do not have pressure gauges or even have a clue on how to make them work, I guess that's the issue for an mid 30's IT guy in the Air Force. No Gray Beard (not insult) Mentors in classic AMC's around for the last 15 years :( SO far than you all for your advice, Looking at the Rear band adjustment as my best hope. Need locate a shop that might have the special tools to get to the adjustment with out removing the tranny.... ANy other test you guys can think of? One other, The linkage going from the column to the tranny has a bad washer at the end connecting to the lever on the tranny. I think this may be the correct part, http://americanpartsdepot.com/TransmissionShifters2.htm#p9708800a Just wanted an extra set of eyes on it. Todd |
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Todd D Weingeroff
1965 Rambler Classic 770 Convertible, AC/PS/Auto 327 Pics located http://photobucket.com/65Convert770 |
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SensibleSpectaculars
AMC Nut Joined: Jul/25/2010 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 472 |
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For what it's worth here's what the diagnosis chart in the factory TSM says to check for a no reverse condition:
(On car without removing pan) 1. Check oil level 2. Check oil pressure 3. Manual linkage adjustment 4. Rear band adjustment 5. Inspect governor (On car after removing pan) 6. Remove, disassemble, and inspect rear servo 7. Oil tubes missing or damaged 8. Remove control valve assembly and inspect for loose screws, replace control valve if no defects (Bench overhaul) 9. Sealing rings missing or broken 10. Rear clutch slipping, wory, or faulty parts 11. Rear band worn or broken As others have mentioned a number of British and European cars (such as Jaguar and Volvo) used essentially the same transmission for years so if you can find a 'greybeard' type shop they may have the experience to deal with it. I'm trying to remember the details, but back in the day it was common for these transmissions to lose reverse gear. As I recall it was caused by a condition where there would always be some pressure going to the rear servo (even in forward gears) causing the rear band to burn out, and the "fix" was to drill a small hole somewhere to relieve this unwanted pressure. (Details are hazy, I'm going by a half-rememberd decades-old memory here.) |
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Kamikazi02
AMC Apprentice Joined: Feb/11/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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If you can find the info on this mod it would be huge! this is the second time for this to happen to me last time i moved to Korea and spent a year trying to get it fixed it lasted 5K and the guys who rebuilt it has retired and not reachable.
Todd
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Todd D Weingeroff
1965 Rambler Classic 770 Convertible, AC/PS/Auto 327 Pics located http://photobucket.com/65Convert770 |
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SensibleSpectaculars
AMC Nut Joined: Jul/25/2010 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 472 |
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My own memory of the mod is dim due to the passage of time, but looking through some of my saved stuff I found this 2005 posting to the AMC mailing list:
Before doing that kind of surgery to your own transmission I would check first to see if looks like that's the problem, see if the rear band is burned out. With the trans being recently rebuilt I'd be surprised if that were the case. (Then again if the misdirected pressure is due to valve-body wear that might not have been addressed by the rebuild.) A good source of technical information for these transmissions is Northwest Transmission Parts. When I needed seals for my M8 they were not only able to supply the parts, but detailed installation info. Edited by SensibleSpectaculars - Mar/22/2015 at 12:39pm |
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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When my dad had the transmission shop when I was a kid, I think the most common fault was the seal on the reverse servo? Especially when cold in upstate NY the seal would get hard and leak. Sometimes crack and then no reverse. He had this super additive he put in everything first that was made out of whale oil. I doubt you could find that anymore, but there may be something comparable now. The other problem was the band breaking near where the servo engaged.
And I do remember him drilling the hole in the rear servo.
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Kamikazi02
AMC Apprentice Joined: Feb/11/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Thanks for all the advice, Now I only need to find a shop that can work on it!
If anyone else has advice, or a write up on the M-8 or a better rebuild guide than the TSM it would be helpful as I might be taking it to someone who is not very proficient with English ... Todd |
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Todd D Weingeroff
1965 Rambler Classic 770 Convertible, AC/PS/Auto 327 Pics located http://photobucket.com/65Convert770 |
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