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'65 287 Heat Riser Valve |
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FunkyStickman 
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Joined: Apr/16/2015 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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 Topic: '65 287 Heat Riser ValvePosted: Apr/10/2017 at 5:27pm |
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I've been having all kinds of issues with my '65 Marlin (287). It seems to be going into vapor lock, but I can't figure out why. I mean, the fuel line is very close to the exhaust pipe, but if it was like that from the factory, it shouldn't be an issue.
Today, when I was looking at it, I noticed the butterfly valve on the right-hand exhaust collector. The thermostat spring to operate it was still there, but the chunk of steel it connects to (and limit stops the valve) is broken off. It was hanging in the forward position, what the book shows as the "open" position. But I don't know that the valve is actually "open" without pulling the pipe and looking. It feels like the valve is closed like that, because it won't turn any more- that would indicate it's closed, I think? http://jeffhendricks.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/heat-riser-valve.jpg I cable-tied it in the other position and drove it around to see if it made a difference, and it seemed to run for quite a while without dying, though after 30 minutes of driving it was still wanting to kill out and die again when I tried to accelerate. I managed to get it home without it killing, and seemed to run okay once I parked it. I'm still kind of confused, but I think this is a major piece of the puzzle I've been missing. I probably need to tune it at idle again if that's the case, since I tuned it with the valve in the other position without knowing it. It definitely sounded different. I'm not 100% sure it's working like the picture shows. The carb was very warm, but not scalding hot like it usually is. Would this valve being closed cause the kinds of vapor lock issues I've been having? Is there a way I can tell if it's open or closed without disassembling it?
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Teamamc
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Joined: Jul/04/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1054 |
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Posted: Apr/10/2017 at 5:30pm |
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I have a function valve if you need one
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ErnieL
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Joined: Mar/28/2017 Location: Anna, Tx Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Posted: Apr/10/2017 at 5:46pm |
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I was lucky and found an NOS one on ebay for mine. If it's just a weekend summer driver, what's to stop you from removing it altogether and putting a spacer in it's place? It'll be a bit cold blooded till it warms up, but it'll function well after that.
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FunkyStickman
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Joined: Apr/16/2015 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Posted: Apr/10/2017 at 6:03pm |
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I live in southern Louisiana, I don't really need it in there at all. I'm just wondering if that was the reason I was having so many problems with it vapor locking. I could put a spacer, I'd be fine with that.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum 
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Posted: Apr/11/2017 at 6:02am |
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Insulate or re-route the fuel line. Just cutting it back and using a longer rubber line will fix it. Gas is formulated differently now than 50 years ago. It's made to vaporize a lot easier, so it will vapor lock easier as well. Had a similar issue with my 63 American back in the early 90s. Some cities have different formulas of gasoline for emissions reasons. I never had a vapor lock issue after 12-13 years of driving, but got up to Ohio and it suddenly started! 196 OHV in a 63 American, has a metal line from pump up to carb. Cut the line at carb and pump, leaving an inch or so, and run a rubber line -- solved problem. Yours is from the tank to pump, but same thing. If you want to keep the metal line put a heat shield between the exhaust and line or insulate the line. Split a rubber tune long enough to go over the line to insulate.
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Frank Swygert
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ErnieL
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Joined: Mar/28/2017 Location: Anna, Tx Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Posted: Apr/11/2017 at 10:04am |
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We used to run our flathead Fords with a half a grapefruit jammed on top of the fuel pump. (SERIOUSLY)
It fixed the problem, but it was great pulling into a filling station and saying, fill it up, check the oil, and the grapefruit. What was even funnier is that they all knew why it was there. :) |
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Rebel327
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Joined: Jan/26/2014 Location: Toledo Ohio Status: Offline Points: 358 |
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Posted: Apr/11/2017 at 12:44pm |
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I would make a metal line not use a ruber hose. That is asking for trouble (fire). Eliminate the valve at exhaust pipe..not needed. Check your coil voltage at start, cold then warm. If you are still running points, my opinion is to switch to Pertronix with new Coil.
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FunkyStickman
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Joined: Apr/16/2015 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Posted: Apr/14/2017 at 10:45am |
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Already done this. I haven't completely replaced the whole fuel line, but if I can't get it to stop, that's my next solution.
LOL, that's awesome!
I pulled the exhaust yesterday and verified in what position the valve was open/closed. I suspect the valve was mostly open, but when I revved the engine, it might have been partially closing from the pressure. I can see where the crossover on the intake manifold had baked all the paint off from being so hot. I put the valve back in, but made sure it was fixed in the "open" position. Per ignition: New points, new coil- I suspected the coil initially, so I already replaced that. Could be the resistor, maybe... I will check the voltage just to make sure. I'll drive it a good ways tomorrow (for a local cruise) and report back.
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FunkyStickman
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Joined: Apr/16/2015 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 9:08pm |
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Update: I drove it about 40 miles this weekend, had no issues with it vapor locking. The intake manifold is still getting pretty warm where the crossover is, and it felt kind of sluggish once it was up to temperature- I may just block it off completely.
What would cause exhaust to be going through the intake crossover when the valve is completely open? Do you think a piston with bad compression would cause a pressure difference, and let hot air to go across? It does blow smoke out of the oil breather but doesn't burn oil. Could this be a compression ring going out? I'm kind of stabbing in the dark here... I also plan on modifying the stock air cleaner to fit a 4-barrel carb throat (the Holley 350 I put on it has a large throat, about twice the size of the original 2-barrel). I don't care about chopping up the stock air cleaner, really. It'll look stock from the topside. Pulling cooler air through the snorkel should be better than an all-around air cleaner.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Posted: Apr/17/2017 at 5:02am |
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Make sure the PCV valve isn't stopped up and the tubing is clear. If that's good, then you're getting some blow-by the rings. The intake is supposed to get warm under the carb. That shouldn't affect street performance enough to make it sluggish though. Warming the intake makes it vaporize fuel better, improving economy. While a cold air charge is more dense, fuel doesn't vaporize as easily in a cold intake. At high speeds it doesn't matter so much, charge velocity will keep fuel suspended in air, but at low speeds droplets can form and fuel doesn't mix as good with air. You're talking about losing a few horses at higher speeds, not a lot. Blocking hte heat crossover might get you 3-5 ponies at higher speeds, that's all. Blocking the crossover is free power for a drag racer though, with the only trade-off being a bit cold natured engine. Who drags in really cold weather?
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Frank Swygert
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farna wrote: