TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Transmission & Drivetrain
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 6 speed manual transmissions
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

6 speed manual transmissions

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
White70JavelinSST View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Aug/08/2012
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 4867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 6 speed manual transmissions
    Posted: Mar/05/2013 at 12:15pm
I've been looking for a write up on installing 6 speed trans in our AMC's. John Elle had a great write up on installing the Mustang 5 speed.
Has anyone written instructions and parts needed for installing 6 speed trans?
Which ones fit, which ones to stay away from, you know, things like that.
I know Quicktime has a bell housing for it.
Any other helpful info for the subject would be much appreciatied.
 
Thanks,
 
Armand
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
Back to Top
Chisam View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Jun/14/2010
Location: PA. - Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chisam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 3:38am
 I was looking at doing this some time ago but didn't want to cut the floor on my AMX and no one at the time seemed to know if you had to modify the tunnel or not. I called Mike Forte [fortesparts.com]and he could put a complete kit togtether , t56 magnum and Quicktime bell and everything needed to do it except the crossmember. Price was ok but I didn't want to cut the car and My car has the T10-t 2.64 first gear so I went with the Gearvendors unit. The t56 magnum has different shifter locations and Mike could have it in the right place for my car but not knowing the tunnel fit stopped me from doing it. I did just get a price quote from American Power train for another make car that I am going from 4sp to t56 magnum that will fit and they put together everything to do it and put the shifter in factory location as this car has a console so I may go with them . Now the t56 magnum is about the same price as the Gearvendors unit 
1968 AMX 390 4SP
Back to Top
amx39068 View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Feb/21/2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 11576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amx39068 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 9:22am
If you don't want to cut the floor you need to get the TKO setup with the adjustable shifter location which allows the movement of the shifter to fit your car.
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development
Back to Top
BADJAV390 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/02/2008
Location: IL/kenosha/MN
Status: Offline
Points: 700
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BADJAV390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 9:37am
I would get the Kiesler SS 700 by Legend GT, its a 5 speeds set up 

Edited by BADJAV390 - Mar/06/2013 at 9:43am
1968 AMX 390/4spd
1969 Jav 600 HP Alfano 390 Protouring
1970 Javelin SST 390/4spd
next..71 amx 401/4spd, 70 AMX 390 4spd, 69 sc/rambler, 69 AMX BBO 390 4spd
Back to Top
Red Devil View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Jul/10/2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1743
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 11:43am
Richmond ROD 6 speed fits with minimal cutting ... but have heard some break 6th gear if pushed hard behind a high hp engine, so more of a cruising gear.  Richmond's split case makes service simpler.  Richmond used to offer an AMC input shaft for stock bell, but not available for a long time, so use GM version with Lakewood 15411 or Quicktime RM-8075 bell.

The ROD comes with a bunch of options, including different input gear sets.  Standard is with the fine-pitch, steep helix OD gear for quieter running (weaker).  Their "road race" sixth has a coarse pitch and shallower helix for increased strength. Check with Richmond if the road-race 6th is good for full load. The strongest gearset is the 2.77, 1.88, 1.46, 1.19, 1.00, 0.84 (Code 7021626EL) - about 20% lower tooth loads.       

First gear options:  4.41, 4.06, 3.28, 3.04 and 3.01, 2.77, 2.24, 2.08
Sixth gear options: 0.76, 0.81, 0.86, 0.91 and 0.52, 0.55, 0.59, 0.62
Road race sixth gear: 0.80 and 0.84 

Check the link.
http://www.richmondgear.com/index.php/transmission/6-speed-rod

NeedafasterAMX's install of GM-comversion Viper T56 required very little cutting and worked with stock-style clutch.
http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-t56-6-speed-install_topic3544.html

TKO is bigger up top than T56.   T56 Magnum has multiple shifter positions like TKO.   I was going to go with the Richmond  but decided to go with T56 Magnum since most people said the Magnum was stronger and shifted better ( Tremec rates the T56 Magnum = 700 lbf.ft torque and 7500+ rpm shift).

For T56 Magnum, wanted to keep drivetrain angle and full access to shifter cover, so cut hole to clear and made a bolt-on cover to fit (... you may be able to get away with cutting less, but would need to angle transmission down a bit, so have to check driveline angles, and would lose access to shifter .... a regular T56 has a smaller tailshaft housing and shifter, so fits more easily ... see needafasterAMXs Viper T56 install for reference).  Also needed to modify the console map pocket to clear the cover.  Tunnel needed some minor hammer-work to get desired clearance in addition to cutting the hole.  Haven't fininshed the install, so don't have finished photos, but this gives idea:

Hole for T56 Magnum ('74 Javelin).  Also need to cut a bit of the crossmember to clear.  With shifter in rear position, it comes up very close to hole for auto floor shifter, so use carpet for an automatic ... front or mid-shift location may get close to stock manual location if you use an offset shifter (Tremec and others have offset shifter options).  The LS transmission is rotated 5 degrees toward driver, with trans mount horizontal, to give a better shifter position for driver.

Interior shots of hole, cover, console:


Master cylinder mounted to firewall:


Remote reservoir for master:


Crossmember (upside down):


Underside view with transmission, exhaust, etc.   Wrapped the exhaust (3" dia.) to act as a heat barrier ... but a shield may be better.   Speedo cable also runs close to exhaust on left side, so used sleeve over cable.  Crossmember was notched to clear cable to try to get generous bend radius.





Parts:

Transmisssion: Tremec TUET-11009 (2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, 0.80, 0.63) - Chevy LS style close ratio

Rear gear:  For healthy street cam, a 3.90 ratio is ideal but tough to find.   3.73 or 4.10 is OK.  For a less aggressive cam, 3.15 or 3.54 should work.

Bell Housing: Quicktime RM-8075-Special for T56 Magnum (bell housing was custom ordered from Summit ... was $660 at the time, but that was before Mr.Gasket/Lakewood bought Quicktime and increased prices). The T56 Magnum bell is shorter than the RM8075 and works with a concentric slave cylinder - no hole or pivot for conventional fork)

Bell Housing to Transmission bolts:  qty.8, M10-1.5 x 40mm lg socket head bolts+ hardened washers (better access using socket heads)

Bell Housing to Engine bolts:  qty.4, 3/8 UNC x 3 1/2" lg;  qty.2, 7/16 UNC x 3 1/2" lg + hardened washers 

Slave Cylinder:  Stock 2000-2002 Camaro.  Others may work.  Check bearing contact diameter is OK for your pressure plate fingers

Slave Cylinder bolts:  2 x M6-1.0 x 20mm lg. + washers

Master Cylinder:  3/4" or 13/16" bore ... depending on pedal ratio.  I used a Wilwood master (260-10373) and modified booster bracket (removed stud from booster, enlarged hole and ground for clearance, upper bolt for master goes through booster bracket and firewall), narrowed master mounting flange slightly, tapped flange and used studs with jam nuts instead of bolts, drilled holes in firewall and modified pedal to connect to master push rod.  Need about a 6:1 pedal ratio, depending on clutch used, so hole for master 2.25" +/- from pivot (my master is mounted on a slight angle upward to pedal using tapered shims to firewall - pushrod should have very little angle through movement).   Need a short threaded extension, heim and offset mouting bracket to mount push rod to pedal.

Master / Slave Plumbing:
- 1/8NPT-04AN 90 degree elbow at master (Aeroquip FBM2611)
- 04AN straight hose end x 2
- 04AN braided teflon brake hose
- 04AN slave adapter fitting (Russel 641001) - drive out pin that retains stock fitting in slave, lube seal on Russel fitting with brake fluid, insert then pin.
- use DOT3 fluid

If you are going hydraulic master / slave, best to bleed before installing.  Was able to bleed then leave fully connected when installing, so no air in system for good pedal feel.  Check youtube for video on bleeding.

Clutch:  Any 26 spline disc clutch to suit power level (using McLeod Street Twin w/ B&B Long pressure plate, twin disc clutch and aluminum flywheel kit McLeod had on sale  McLeod part 63506B-XX-07)Note: Was not balanced, so match balance to exiting flywheel or flexplate.

Pilot bearing:  From an 89 Jeep Wrangler 4.2L  (Napa B041 .... 15mm ID needle bearing x 1.055" OD ... note Napa part description is incorrect on bore size (says 0.613"), but it is 15mm (0.591") ... at least the one I got ... Tremec recommends a bearing instead of a bushing)
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BRGB041_0072558372

Crossmember:  Custom

Transmission mount:  Stock GM or any aftermarket replacement type (e.g. Energy Suspension 3-1108R)

Driveshaft:  I got a new aluminum driveshaft, but stock 727 driveshaft with C6 style yoke & conversion u-joint should work as length is about right. 

Back-up Lights:  Use pigtail (Delco PT107, GM 12085485 or Napa EC152) and wire into stock harness

Reverse Lock Out:  Use pigtail (Delco PT249, GM 12101857 or Napa EC177) and wire into brake light switch.  I added a switch on console so switch must be on and brake pedal pressed to shift into reverse.    

Speedometer cable:  From  Mustang T5 (Dorman 03171).  Cut off Mustang speedometer retainer and clamped on the end from a spare Javelin cable.   Not sure if early T10 cable works?   The gear is same as T5 so choose to suit your rear gear.  T56 Magnum also has electronic speedo if you are updating gauges and want electronic.

Update: After running for a while, the speedo cable started to leak at the transmission then ran down the cable onto the X-pipe, soaked the header wrap and smoked when pipes got hot. Disassembled, cleaned and used RightStuff to try to seal the cable at the crimp on the end of the connector and fit a new o-ring to seal the connector into the transmission. So far, seems ok, but plan to add a heat shield to keep any drips off the exhaust.

Shifter stick, knob & boot:   Choose what suits your taste.   I've got a Longacre 22613 stick (Edit:Modified stick significantly so ended up about same length and offset as a Hurst 5387201 stick) and knob and still sorting out what boot to use.   Need 3/8" fine thread bolts to mount handle to shifter.

T56 Magnum recommended oil is Mobil Synthetic ATF.  Not quite 4 litres to fill.

Note the transmission is about 130 lbs. so use a transmission jack.

Hope this helps, RD.


Edited by Red Devil - Feb/04/2018 at 1:02pm
Back to Top
White70JavelinSST View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Aug/08/2012
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 4867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 12:11pm

Thanks guys,

 
please post more pictures Red Devil. I'm also curious how the crossmember problem was solved.
Cutting the floor or most anything else isn't aproblem with this chassis. It's not the White70SST. 
 
Armand
 
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
Back to Top
Red Devil View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Jul/10/2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1743
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 12:32pm
Added crossmember photo.  I custom built it to clear pipes from headers and x-pipe.   Mounts to rear holes in frame and uses a GM trans mount.  Car is in storage, but will try to get a few photos.

Thanks, RD

Edit: A couple interior shots of the master pushrod connected to the pedal(boot removed to show pushrod is straight into the master). I made a 3/8" thick bracket with a hole that fits snug to the pedal pivot tube and bolted to the side of the pedal to allow easy geometry changes by fitting a different bracket. A heim is bolted to the bracket with a threaded coupling to the pushrod and a jam nut.





Interior shot showing shifter position in neutral using a Longacre stick shortened and redrilled. Sorry not the best but gives an idea. The red toggle switch on the console is for the reverse lock-out (in series with brake light switch on pedal, so brake pedal must be pressed and switch on to shift into reverse).



Edit: Added photos showing T56 Magnum bolt pattern for reference (same as T56 except one hole).







American Powertrain and others sell adapter plates to fit to short bells. I'm sure there are more economical options out there.
http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8425899-maglink-adapter-kit-for-gm-magnum-to-gm-tko-muncie-t10-bell.html

Edited by Red Devil - Jan/28/2015 at 9:45am
Back to Top
White70JavelinSST View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Aug/08/2012
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 4867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 1:46pm
I get the idea for the crossmember. Looks pretty straight forward. Well done ! 
Were you impressed with the Quicktime bellhousing? Fit and finish?  Is the procedure for verifying the trans opening in the bell is concentric with the crankshaft pretty much the same method as used for other set-ups?
Did you use the factory flywheel?  Any troubles with the flywheel/starter and the bellhousing?
 
Thanks,
 
Armand
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
Back to Top
tsanchez View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/09/2007
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 1:49pm
I thought of sticking richmond 6 speed I have but I think I would kill it with my car, I think Ill keep it for my road car with a mild 401. 
Back to Top
Red Devil View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Jul/10/2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1743
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2013 at 3:51pm
I've got a drawing somewhere for the crossmember, so will post if I find it.

The Quicktime bell looked good and fit well with no major clearance issues ... a bit snug installing the engine bolts and some hammer work and cutting mostly for transmission clearance.  For the T56 Magnum style bell, the hole in the middle isn't a full circle and it isn't really registered to the engine dowel holes or the holes for the dowel pins that locate the T56.   I called Ross McCombs at QuickTime and he said the best method to check concentricity is to mount the bell, remove the front cover from the transmission and bolt to the bell, then indicate to the bore for the input bearing race. For parallelism, put packing tape over the notches to allow the dial indicator to glide over them and checked close to the transmission mounting holes.

Edit: Added photos of bell. I used stripper to remove the powder coat from the mounting surfaces to ensure a good fit. Quicktime machines both faces and the bolt patterns after welding, but still required shimming and adjustment of dowels to get within Tremec spec for parallelism and runout.





If you use a T10-style bell with a T56 adapter plate for a stock style mechanical clutch, should be able to indicate like normal, but would need an extended pilot bearing or bushing (see needafasterAMXs post on his Viper T56 install).  Don't think Tremec sells the regular T56 w/adapter plate for early GM anymore ... but should be able to find a used T56 if looking for lower cost option.

For clutch and flywheel, using a McLeod street twin kit (63506B-XX-07) which includes the flywheel.  The flywheel is supposed to be a stock replacement type, but can't say for sure if ring gear is same location.  Had no issues with flywheel fit or starter, but using a PowerMaster 9515 starter.   Need to be careful of starter bolts as there isn't much thread in the bell ... enough, but close. Note the flywheel needed to be match balanced as it was out a fair bit from stock. Total weight of the Street Twin assembly was about 38 lbs (flywheel, discs, floater, PP).

The bell is smaller than the Lakewood, so not sure if an 11" clutch fits?   Close fit to the fingers on the 10.5" B&B Long PP.  An 11" diaphragm style maybe OK ... but not sure??




Hope this helps, RD.



Edited by Red Devil - Jun/12/2017 at 4:53pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or