5 speed or 6 speed

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   Hi,
What are the recommendations for a 5 or 6 speed behind a built 401 that will see some track time???  I'd like to put something in that I don't need to much custom parts as far as the throw out bearing or pilot bushing, etc. Just sold my baby (70 RWB machine) and some of that cash is going in to my other 70 rebel that will be a pro tourer. like to stay under 4k invested???

Thanks
Shawn

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Rebel3904sp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Sep/05/2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rebel3904sp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 5 speed or 6 speed Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 10:37am
	Hi, What are the recommendations for a 5 or 6 speed behind a built 401 that will see some track time??? I'd like to put something in that I don't need to much custom parts as far as the throw out bearing or pilot bushing, etc. Just sold my baby (70 RWB machine) and some of that cash is going in to my other 70 rebel that will be a pro tourer. like to stay under 4k invested??? Thanks Shawn

Ken_Parkman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken_Parkman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 11:30am
	Took me about 4k total to go to a TKO 600 5-speed in my Rambler, and it's wonderful. About 1/2 the cost was the tranny, then it snowballs to get a steel flywheel, new clutch, scattershield and block plate, bigger driveshaft, new yokes, new shift lever, etc etc etc. But it is fantastic. Literally 10 times better to drive around, double the gear range, and faster at the track. It is still not a "race" transmission and I went with a street diaphragm clutch, so when I go to the track I am still throwing a lot of ET out the window, but still much better than the T10. The 2.87 low allows it to not bog with a low rpm launch because of the street clutch - I have to drive it home. It is difficult to get 3'rd gear at the track; apparently there is a cure for that. But it is an excellent dual purpose combination. Excellent drivability, I can get in it and drive 4 hours with decent milage and comfort, and the car will run high 11's exactly as you drive there. Very pleased.

343sharpstick Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/10/2010 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 554	Post Options Post Reply Quote 343sharpstick Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 3:46pm
	I have a G-force modified T5, with a Pro 5.0 shifter behind my 401 and it's been holding up nicely Yes, I do drive like a hooligan, and I have sticky pro-touring 17" tiers on it. Not as nice as the T56 option, but smaller, lighter, and a bit less expensive. Both are great options. Overdrive is VERY nice if you actually drive your car.

scott Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Wildwood Pa. Status: Offline Points: 3502	Post Options Post Reply Quote scott Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 4:04pm
	I have a T5 Z in my 70 Rebel, behind the stone stock, down to the emission pump, 390. I used a brand new T5 Z. The advantage to the T5 is that it allows you to use some of the original 4 speed parts. Use the 4 speed drive shaft with a Ford front yoke & a conversion U joint. No custom drive shaft needed. The 4 speed speedo cable plugs right in with a gear change. Use an AMC Jeep front bearing retainer to replace the Ford retainer. I used a stock late short (6 1/2" deep) AMC car bellhousing, with the stock clutch linkage. A very small piece of the tunnel was removed to make room for the shifter, maybe 2" X 4". No major tunnel cutting like some transmissions require. Love it, best mod I have done to a car. The low 1st is as nice as the overdrive. I would say the total swap cost be in the $1600.00 ballpark. I don't drag the car, or dump the clutch. Did that in my past, broke some parts, don't feel the urge anymore. The T5 has held up fine. It does get run hard thru the gears just about every time its out, hard to resist! If I had more power like you are planning, & had drags in the future, I'd consider other transmissions, as well as an upgraded T5. Especially with the Rebel's tendency to violently wheel hop. I can see that breaking transmissions, I can tell you it breaks axle housings. Edited by scott - Apr/15/2014 at 4:07pm

White70JavelinSST Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4867	Post Options Post Reply Quote White70JavelinSST Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 5:01pm
	To some track car means drag race to others track car means road race. Drag racer, seems foolish to use anything but an automatic. or 4 speed or a lenco when using a "built" 401. Horsepower makes a huge difference here. Trans brakes and stall convertors break less than dropping the clutch at 6000 rpm and shock loading the drive train. For road racing the T5 needs so much modification that you're better of going to a trans built more for road racing. You will need a sfi flywheel and scattershleed to be safe, can't drive without feet when you're used to them. There are posts already on this forum regarding which 6 speed and bellhousing. Some of the 6 speeds can handle upwards of 600 hp. If your engine is capable of that much horsepower you've already spent more than your imagination can come up with and $4000 budget for a trans is not going to keep you out of trouble at the track. Even if you've got less than 450 hp you still want to match it to a trans that can handle it. If you can't afford to do it right, how can you afford to do it twice. A mixed street/track car is both a blessing and a problem. They are probably not really prime for either use but still tons of fun. Armand
	70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972

Rebel3904sp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Sep/05/2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rebel3904sp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 9:05pm
	I'd like to do a t5 but i think any track time will be occassional quarter mile blasts and maybe some autocrossing, still not sure it will hold up...to protect parts I'm going to put a 9 inch out back and some better control arms with some adjustability there. Never had real bad wheel hop with my machine after I put coilovers on it. looking at the control freak stuff for the front and rear actually as well...still a newbie to this stuff, never had the $$$ before to get serious, so I want to get the trans parts right the first time like someone mentioned before. So maybe the t56 is better option???

343sharpstick Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/10/2010 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 554	Post Options Post Reply Quote 343sharpstick Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 9:16pm
	Modifying the T5 is not that bad, I worked with Hanlon Motorsports on my build, and had a great conversation with them on the limitations of the T5 versus some of the other options. They sell both. They also assisted with the clutch choice which will help the hard parts live longer. My T5 has all the G-Force goodies including the Trans Case Upgrade, new shafts, and gears. So in reality not much of the original T5 remains. I think the tail shaft, reverse, and the overdrive gear is about it. http://www.jegs.com/i/G-Force+Transmissions/468/GFT5072/10002/-1 Read this information and come to your own conclusion. http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp The ease with which you can install a T5 into an AMC is a major positive and a big reason for my choice to go this route. Perhaps installing a T56 is now as easy as doing the T5, but I haven't looked into it since I have had my T5 in place now for a few years. Unlike Scott, I do dump the clutch Edited by 343sharpstick - Apr/15/2014 at 9:23pm

Rebel3904sp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Sep/05/2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rebel3904sp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/15/2014 at 9:32pm
	wow, thx, this is a definate option, how much you say you invested in the trans itself then??

White70JavelinSST Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4867	Post Options Post Reply Quote White70JavelinSST Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/16/2014 at 6:35am
	Yup, Hanlon is the guy for T5 mods that will make first through fourth gears work well for drag racing. I bought parts from him and he will help you through a T5 rebuild, which is how I made my conversion affordable. I used a thrashed T5 as a start that I got for $50 (great deal, it had 3rd gear teeth missing and shot cluster gear). I spent about $400 for parts (and a used shifter) to rebuild it and did all the work myself. It's a street driven car only that I seldom run hard so it should live forever. However the T5 trans is dated for road racing. Fifth gear doesn't have the strength needed to manage a lot of horsepower in a road racing car unless the trans is modified so heavily that the cost gets up there over what is costs to buy a T56magnum. Especially if you have to buy a new T5 and then parts to make it live. I think the magnum is about $3000 and a steel Bell is about $700. A steel bell or blast blanket is needed for safety to protect feet and legs in any racing venue. I know a guy who lost his foot from a flywheel explosion back in the 60s. Armand
	70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972

White70JavelinSST Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4867	Post Options Post Reply Quote White70JavelinSST Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/16/2014 at 6:36am
	http://theamcforum.com/forum/6-speed-manual-transmissions_topic48121_page1.html copy and paste the link above to read more about the 6 speed. for some reason all the photos went away?? Here's another thread too http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-t56-6-speed-install_topic3544.html Armand Edited by White70JavelinSST - Apr/16/2014 at 6:40am
	70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972