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287 carby trouble |
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titan
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/14/2018 Location: temora Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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could you give me more info as to the model of carby?
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4741 |
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Three astronauts died on Apollo I because a young engineer that saw a problem didn't speak up for fear of backlash from senior engineers. However, I at 23 years old am going to speak up because I see a problem even if it gets my head shot off by the older guys around here. Titan's problem is not an accelerator pump problem. Yes, rubber or leather cup-type accelerator pumps like the 2209 uses are more prone to failure than a diaphragm-type like the Motorcraft carburetors, but that is beside the point. If anything was wrong with titan's accelerator pump, his engine would be lean at tip-in and not rich at steady throttle. He is "rich at medium revs". That is not an accelerator pump cup problem. Titan's problem is most likely a power valve problem, as he suggested himself. The 2209 does not use a diaphragm-type replaceable power valve like other Holleys and the Motorcraft carburetors use. There are no rubber parts at all in the 2209 power valve. The 2209 PV system is identical to the system on Rochester 2G carbs. It uses a metal poppet valve threaded into the bottom of the float bowl between the main jets. This poppet valve is opened and closed by a spring-loaded piston located inside the top casting of the carburetor. It is just a metal piston in a metal bore. There are no rubber or leather parts in the entire PV system that can be affected by ethanol. Forget about ethanol. Besides, I ran a 2209 on my Rambler for years and thousands of miles with ethanol and had no problems what so ever due to ethanol, the same as all my other carbs. I don't believe this ethanol rap. Edited by FSJunkie - Apr/15/2018 at 2:53am |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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titan
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/14/2018 Location: temora Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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thanks for the informative post. I am pretty sure it is the piston not pulling up. It seems a bit worn and sticky in the housing of the carby.I have cleaned it and it did improve. If I improve the vacuum the valve pulls up. I have had the carby to 2 carby experts and they both put kits in it but I don't think they touched the power valve. Can I buy a poppet valve and housing somewhere?
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4741 |
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The actual poppet valve in the bottom of the float bowl also needs to move free and seal in the up position (piston pulled in). I have not seen them for sale anywhere, but they usually don't go bad. (Not much to go wrong with one). Just check yours over, clean it, make sure it moves freely, and that no chunks of crud are making it stick. Somebody may have changed the main jets and they could be too large. The proper ones have a number 54 or 56 of them. As I mentioned, the float bowl gaskets that come in the rebuild kits are not always right. Sometimes they don't seal where they should. I had to make a gasket from scratch for my own 2209. You have to really pay attention to details like that when rebuilding a carb. Not all new parts are correct. All the talk from the other guys about ethanol destroying carbs is scary to hear, but rest assured that I have a 2209 that I ran on ethanol for years and thousands of miles along with other carburetors much like it and I've had no problems caused by ethanol. You seem to know quite a bit about carbs and seem to be smart about diagnostics. You should be able to take that 2209 apart and handle this yourself. However, if you can't get the problem licked, ship your 2209 to me. For the cost of shipping, parts, and some money compensation for my time, I will rebuild it for you and return it to you as right as rain. |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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titan
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/14/2018 Location: temora Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks again. I will check it over. I think your reply will be exactly the info I needed
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4741 |
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You're welcome. I hope you get it resolved. I understand the reasons why other people are recommending to trash the 2209 and replace it with something else, but I've always been a person who would rather repair what I have and make it work properly than replace it with something else. I find life is easier that way. There are better carbs than the 2209, but there is no reason a 2209 cannot run properly and reliably. There is nothing abnormal about it. The 2209 is actually very similar to a Rochester 2G and the 2G is a wonderful carb.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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akimmet
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/02/2012 Location: Republic OH Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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Ugh, too much mis-information about ethanol gas. I live in Ohio, we have been living with ethanol in our gas since the early '90s. This was still back when a significant numbers of carbureted vehicles were still on the road.
Don't get me wrong; E10 sucks, but it isn't the dire story amcenthusiast is painting. Most of the recent problems people have been having with mechanical fuel pumps is with build quality, not deterioration from ethanol. Using an external electric fuel pump is still far less reliable than using a newly manufactured or recently rebuilt mechanical pump. Any carburetor kit made by a reputable company in the last 25 years will be safe to use with e10. A Holley 2300 or 4160/4150 rebuilt with a genuine Holley kit is just as ethanol safe as a Rochester or Carter. The green Holley diaphragms actually seem to last longer the piston seals in other designs. However; this is still a problem for the Holley 2209. It is a somewhat forgotten design. Most kits on the market are wrong/incomplete, and might not have ethanol resistant components. Daytonaparts.com might be the only company making updated carburetor kits for older or unpopular applications like the Holley 2209. |
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amcenthusiast
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2012 Location: SW Atlanta GA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLEY-65-ALCOHOL-E85-POWER-VALVE-AED-BG-DEMON-GRANT-QFT-CARBS/162968596937?epid=1745604867&hash=item25f1af71c9:g:Ij4AAOxyzGlQ7luZ&vxp=mtr
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443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/ |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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That power valve may not fit the 2209. FSJunkie seems to be familiar with the 2209 and states it uses a different power valve than the later Holley 2V and 4V carbs.
I understand the issue with ethanol gas and cars that sit a long time, but that's not just ethanol gas, it's modern gas. The fuel is engineered to atomize easier for EFI, which also means it evaporates easier. Ethanol enriched gas might evaporate/degrade slightly faster than non-ethanol, but modern non-ethanol gas degrades at about the same rate as ethanol enriched. |
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Frank Swygert
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Lucas660
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/16/2012 Location: Vic, Australia Status: Offline Points: 1344 |
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I have a couple of Holley 2300's on the shelf, both off 287 engines.
They are off the earlier models and are a much better carby. Rebuild kits are easily obtained. PM me if
you are interested. I am also in Australia.
edit: Replied off page one. I think the main problem in this case is getting parts for it in Australia. Edited by Lucas660 - Apr/16/2018 at 8:38am |
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