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258 fuel pump issues |
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greasygt III
AMC Addicted Joined: May/27/2014 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 676 |
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I replaced a fuel pump a while back and it worked great for a short time before it quit. It was an Airtex brand for a 258.
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83 Spirit GT
79 Ranchero GT 460 |
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greasygt III
AMC Addicted Joined: May/27/2014 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 676 |
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He hasn't attached the pump to the tank yet, he's trying to feed it from a gas can first.
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83 Spirit GT
79 Ranchero GT 460 |
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Javelin Dan
AMC Apprentice Joined: Aug/02/2014 Location: Akron, OH. Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Sorry about that - I guess I missed the gas can part. My bad. I'd still make sure it's getting enough return air though.
At the risk of going too far astray, I do want to address one other issue which is a suitable replacement for the stock fuel pump. The fuel inlet tube came loose on mine one night just as I pulled into a cruise night an hour from home. I epoxy puttied it to no effect and it bucked and backfired all the way home, but I made it somehow. I checked at several parts houses and of course the pump was barely available through special order. I never liked the puny looks of it anyhow and started thinking. While walking around the parking lot at the cruise, I happened to study the fuel pump on an early Mustang (sorry - I can't remember for sure if it was a 6 or 8 cyl, but I'm pretty sure it was a 6). As close as I could tell by comparison, the bolt flanges looked to be the same pattern, though I couldn't tell if there were any other differences. I took the old pump with me to an Autozone and asked to see the Ford 6 cyl.(?) pump. The bolt patterns WERE the same and the pump arm had relatively the same profile. The only difference I could see was that the Ford pump arm was about a half inch longer than the AMC. Since it wasn't an expensive pump, I bought it and took it home. I first tried a trial fit of loosely bolting it on the 232 and it fit! Next I carefully ground down the tip of the arm till it matched the length of the AMC on a bench grinder. I then chamfered all the edges nice and smooth and bolted it on. It fired right up and has been working flawlessly for about four years now. I know this doesn't solve the poster's original problem, and I apologise for hijacking the discussion. But as these cars age, it is increasingly harder to find replacement parts for them. I do think it is helpful to share when someone finds a suitable interchange. |
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73amchornet
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/13/2011 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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is there a notable performance difference if I mount the 4 barrel with the primaries toward the engine instead of away from the engine? by rotating 180 degrees, the PCV port on the 600 is toward the firewall, as is the PCV valve from the 4.0 head. The fuel inlet on the carb is in the corner closest to the fuel line from the fuel pump. And virtually all adjustment areas on the carb are easier to get to.
Dudley |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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This is to some extent and answer that is driven by the intake manifold you are using. And then to the carburetor.
So exactly what intake manifold is in use and can I assume that the 600 CFM carburetor is a Carter AFB or ? And you realize of course that a 600 CFM carburetor is big by a whole bunch Using the formula that applies to applying a carburetor works out to a bit under 400 CFM at 5000 rpm. When I build an engine equivalent to the 258 AMC I use a 400 CFM Carter AFB. A 600 could very well give drivability problems. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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warweapon762
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/27/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 153 |
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The 600 will run fine if he is using a Offy DP and the carb is properly jetted. If its the open plenum design it will run like crap unless its stroked.
I've run the 500 cfm and the 600 cfm on a stock motor with the Offy DP and had little or no drivability issues. |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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The 600 will run fine if he is using a Offy DP and the carb is properly jetted. [/QUOTEI would like to point out the word "if" and the ramifications implied by the usage of it. Things can be crutched into operation, but bolting them on and expecting proper operation is a whole 'nother animal. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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As the original thread started out with fuel pump failures and the problem was trying to run a new pump with a short hose going to a fuel can thus eliminating pretty much anything to the rear of the car as a problem, I don't see it solved yet.
But as I deal with I6 engines here in Phoenix and really don't know any one else that does, the only thing I can add to the failed pump thread is that I have gone a lot of I6 fuel pumps in the last couple of years leading me to believe there is some bad manufacturing going on somewhere. I suspect that with the age of the engine that these days there are one manufacturer and it is packaged in a lot of different vendor boxes and some problems have come about. But I have not lost a fuel pump in over a year. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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73amchornet
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/13/2011 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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manifold is Clifford, carb is holley 600 vacuum secondary, with the Mojo upgrades. 4.0 head swap, Isky cam, dual exhaust.
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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Which Isky cam? And I suppose I can find it but what is a MOJO upgrade?
There are two commonly accepted methods of determining a properly sized carburetor. ] One is to take displacement in Cu In (258) and multiplying it by 2 (516) and subtracting 15% (438.6) cfm The other is to take Displacement and factor in RPM , multiply by VE (on a completely stock engine figure .85 and divide by 3456 which comes up 317 Cfm, Of just forget about VE and that comes up about 373 CFM. So a 600 CFM carburetor is about 160% larger than the rule of thumb would apply to it. However if the manifold is an open chamber manifold reversing the mounting of the carburetor may or may not cause a problem. I guess it would be defendant on how the floor of the intake is designed to move air and fuel around in side of it. If there is no particular forming in the bottom my guess would be that it might work o.k., but if there is pathways cast into the bottom, they are probably there to move air around depending on where it came from and mounting the carburetor backwards may not work that well Never mind, I found out what a MOJO modified 600 CFM Holley is, the thing is for drag racing and if that is what you ar doing I really have no comment on it. I build street motors and it is not a carburetor I would use on the street. Edited by uncljohn - May/27/2015 at 3:25pm |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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