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232 upgrade to 258?

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 6:41pm
So I guess there was at least two different intakes. I sure wouldn't have made two!

Yes, the Jeep oil pans are deeper, so you'd need the pickup tube as well. He'll also need a 258 oil pan... maybe.

Wizzle, look on the left side of the oil pan where it's close to the block. Is the pan smooth, or are there some "bumps" along the side of the pan? The "bumps" are there to clear the 258 rods. I believe AMC made only one pan, but that may have only been for the last few years of the 232.  If you have the "bumps" in your pan you can use the pickup tube and pan from your engine. If not, you might be able to dent the pan with a hammer to clear the rods rather than ship one over. A 4.0L pan and pickup tube will work to, I think. Those you can find over there.
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 7:09pm
  If you use a oil pan that came from a Jeep in a car,  in most cars, it is gonna drag.
 
  The sumps are deeper on the Jeep oil pans i've seen.  I had to use the oil pan and pickup from my 77 Gremlin,  to keep the 4.0 pan from being too low on my 66 American.


Edited by tyrodtom - Jun/07/2012 at 7:10pm
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2012 at 4:15pm
What about a 4.0L from an XJ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wizzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2012 at 2:54am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

So I guess there was at least two different intakes. I sure wouldn't have made two!

Yes, the Jeep oil pans are deeper, so you'd need the pickup tube as well. He'll also need a 258 oil pan... maybe.

Wizzle, look on the left side of the oil pan where it's close to the block. Is the pan smooth, or are there some "bumps" along the side of the pan? The "bumps" are there to clear the 258 rods. I believe AMC made only one pan, but that may have only been for the last few years of the 232.  If you have the "bumps" in your pan you can use the pickup tube and pan from your engine. If not, you might be able to dent the pan with a hammer to clear the rods rather than ship one over. A 4.0L pan and pickup tube will work to, I think. Those you can find over there.

Hi Frank, thanks again for the feedback. My engine is currently configured with a non-standard 2-barrel intake and carb, alternator on the LHS, after-market power steering with the pump on the RHS, and the sump does have the 3 'bumps' on the LHS (this was a bit of a surprise).

Here's a question I didn't think I would be asking...
How do I know if I already have a 258 under the hood (either original or upgraded from an original 232)?

I had never actually considered that as a possibility. I know the Jeep has undergone some serious mods before I owned it. I think it may have actually been pieced together from two vehicles (a bit of a '74/'75 hybrid). The body tub seems to be from a '75, but the VIN says it's a '74 with a 232.

Given the block is the same on both the 232 and 258, the engine casting number (3218618) would be the same on both - wouldn't it?

Given the sump seems to be from a 258, the question is - Why would it have this sump fitted?
Is it possible it has already been upgraded to a 258?

can the stroke be measured through a spark plug hole?

I'm more confused than when I first posted on the forum!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2012 at 8:55am
Why the 258 sump? Economics. Same sump bolted to the 232 and 258, why make two different ones? The bumps on the left side do noting in the 232, but do no harm either. That's why I questioned the two intakes, but AMC may have used two different suppliers anyway, or they made enough manual steering cars that the 3-5 cents of aluminum for the PS mounts made a difference to the bean counters... or maybe the engineers just didn't like the looks of bosses sticking out on the intake with nothing attached. The sump doesn't easily show like the intake does.

The only way to determine if you have a 258 is to measure the stroke. Get a piece of stiff wire and run it in a spark plug hole. Run the piston down to the bottom then mark the wire. Run piston to top and mark again. Make sure you use the same reference point when marking. Measure between marks. Is it closer to 3.5" or closer to 3.895"? Shorter is 232. Your measurement should be slightly more than the actual stroke due to the angle. If the measurement is anything less than 3.895" it's a 232. The 258 will measure right at or over 4" using this method.

You are correct, pre 1979 casting numbers are shared between the 232 and 259. I found one  casting number in my list that is in the 232 section that isn't in the 258, but that is likely a mistake -- it is probably a 70 only number, or should be in the 258 listing also. I have it listed as 70-72, bit it can't be over that range since the 71 block is taller. But then some of the short blocks were likely still cast for a couple years to allow for warranty replacements. If a block cracked or was otherwise damaged in a new enough car the internal parts would be changed over. Makes no monetary sense now, but back then the dealer and/or factory probably saved a bit by doing it that way. Labor costs in the US have skyrocketed until it's not worth the effort any more, that tells you something about how labor costs have gone up right there!

Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
www.amc-mag.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wizzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2012 at 9:51am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

Why the 258 sump? Economics. Same sump bolted to the 232 and 258, why make two different ones? The bumps on the left side do noting in the 232, but do no harm either. That's why I questioned the two intakes, but AMC may have used two different suppliers anyway, or they made enough manual steering cars that the 3-5 cents of aluminum for the PS mounts made a difference to the bean counters... or maybe the engineers just didn't like the looks of bosses sticking out on the intake with nothing attached. The sump doesn't easily show like the intake does.

The only way to determine if you have a 258 is to measure the stroke. Get a piece of stiff wire and run it in a spark plug hole. Run the piston down to the bottom then mark the wire. Run piston to top and mark again. Make sure you use the same reference point when marking. Measure between marks. Is it closer to 3.5" or closer to 3.895"? Shorter is 232. Your measurement should be slightly more than the actual stroke due to the angle. If the measurement is anything less than 3.895" it's a 232. The 258 will measure right at or over 4" using this method.

You are correct, pre 1979 casting numbers are shared between the 232 and 259. I found one  casting number in my list that is in the 232 section that isn't in the 258, but that is likely a mistake -- it is probably a 70 only number, or should be in the 258 listing also. I have it listed as 70-72, bit it can't be over that range since the 71 block is taller. But then some of the short blocks were likely still cast for a couple years to allow for warranty replacements. If a block cracked or was otherwise damaged in a new enough car the internal parts would be changed over. Makes no monetary sense now, but back then the dealer and/or factory probably saved a bit by doing it that way. Labor costs in the US have skyrocketed until it's not worth the effort any more, that tells you something about how labor costs have gone up right there!


No worries. I ended up going through that exact procedure not long after posting the question and it measures pretty close to 3.5". Dammit. That would have been a great surprise!
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