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232 rebuild questions |
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232jav3sp
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2013 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2451 |
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I used Lunati's smallest can in my Rambler. 208/213 duration and it's been fine with stock springs. I got n there springs Lunati recommended but haven't had time to install.
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kronik
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/13/2011 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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I have a 4.0 head on the way, casting 7120. Decided the stock head was not worth investing anything into. So I supposed now I will be filling some water jacket ports and trying to find the correct length hollow push rods. Any tips on this process or any other issues with this conversion would be great!
Also think I found a piston that will work to move my compression much closer to 10:1 with the 4.0 head. It turns out a ford SOHC 2.3 liter motor uses a piston with a 3.780 bore / 1.590 compression distance / pin diameter of .912 or .927. The piston is available for much cheaper than your typical amc, also can be found in hyper and forged versions. I will just have to machine the pistons to accept a larger pin (0.931), or bush the rod end. I will talk to my machinist soon to find out if this is a viable option. |
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65 American
67 American |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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Were the old head's rockers pushrod driven with pairing bridges or was it mounted along one long shaft? You'll have issues if it's the later one. The 7120 head is a good candidate for airflow, durability, heat dissipation, EFI update and material subtraction. I spent a LOT of time porting my 7120 head to a nice polish finish. If you don't have a rotary, go get one. The one replacing my 2spd Dremel is a variable Hyper Tough model. They're maybe $20 at Walmart and come with all kinds of grinding discs, a few sanding barrels, wire brush, polishing wheels and compound. You might want to get your intake gasket and outline the subtraction area before you do any work on it. From there I would do the packing peanuts and JB Weld. Wouldn't hurt to cc each chamber when subtracting surface area in the combustion chambers.
I used SBC umbrellas on new exhaust valves and reused my intake valves. Lapping the valves was more preferrable to recutting the seats before doing a .005" resurface. If you decide to order new exhaust valves, keep in mind that it's a nightmare to get them through anywhere but Morris 4x4. JC Whitney would wait out my orders after five days before calling me to notify me of a cancel. Summit just didn't have them at the time and I had to get them at a premium from across the country. Maybe you won't run into that at all but I remember that being the reason I spent so much time on this head. It was fun eliminating all the rough edges and bad flash casting that was everywhere. |
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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kronik
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/13/2011 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Shaft mounted rockers... am I doomed?
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65 American
67 American |
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614 |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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Maybe but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you're as resourceful as I am. Now pay close attention.
Both before and after you do any work dedicated to putting this new head to use, take this issue to your machinist for help. He should have an open list catalog about the size of a new world dictionary to sort replacement pushrods BY LENGTH and they need the hollow provision for oil distribution like our 258 and 4L counterparts. You need your old pushrods to mock this up before modification(at least clean the head first) and you'll need a potential list of candidates to replace that old set as it will not be reused beyond this point. I went full caveman on this with my build and didn't even use an adjustable pushrod length checker, I used a square to estimate the length and check that against a list of stock replacement candidates via Mopar. You do not get that luxury and will actually have to go about this the hard way and get the actual replacement length. It is likely a supporting candidate will come from the 351 Cleveland engine or possibly elsewhere. Whatever it is, it needs to fit to make this work and if you have some radical cam replacement, change it. Shaft rocker ratio is 1.5x while pedestal rockers are 1.6x so you'll have to do some math to recalculate the safe distance for valve travel. You don't need valves kissing your pistons and you don't need valve retainers chewing up those umbrellas, so make sure you look at and understand everything going on before you encounter any problems. |
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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There's at least one low deck 232 out there running well with the 4.0L head -- the one I mentioned with (I think) 351C pushrods. But as DaemonForce says, you need to check the pushrod length and valve travel due to the different rocker ratio. I don't think it's an issue, but you need to check. A pair of adjustable pushrods would make it easier so you can set up one cylinder, but you still need to have a target range -- the pushrods only adjust about an inch.
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Frank Swygert
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AMXRWB
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/25/2013 Location: Midwest Status: Offline Points: 1154 |
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That is what I said early in the topic.A 4 liter head swap on a shaft rocker engine is not fast and easy.
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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Kronik, I like what you have found about the possibility of using Ford 2.3L pistons to up the compression. Let us know how that goes. I have a spare 66 engine that I put a cam in and new rings and bearings but it would really like a re-bore. I didn't do anything to the head in anticipation of using a 4.0 head so thanks for the homework that you are doing.
If a 2.3 std piston is +.030 for a 232 maybe I'll try and find one to play with from an engine shop or the auto wreckers. Edited by vinny - Dec/14/2017 at 11:54am |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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Same. This is really all the first and finishing points amount to in this case for all the cam geometry. One of the things I liked to do with the 232 and that shaft rocker setup is replace all the worn junk with a BIG cam and twin Weber system. It would take it but the twin carb thing is more appropriate for a 258. It's too easy to flood. This will be a bit different with the 4.0L head but the geometry between a 232 and 4L is important. It was enough for me to stop and look at what I was doing with the 4.7L and all I was doing top end was going from a 4L head to a 4L head. The difference in my case was the Harland Sharp rolling rockers and I'm not sure if the change was related to the new lifters or the elevated position on the pushrod seats but I needed to trim my pushrods as .060-.120" difference was a big enough deal to introduce flow problems and chatter. It just makes sense to bolt in what fits and works right. I expect much greater pushrod size differences on a 4L head swapped small deck skinny bore block. I haven't done any machining work to my head aside from my own hand crafting but I can tell you that .445" rise is pushing real close to the valve travel limit for my engine. I don't remember what the max safe distance is on the 232 but I would use the same caveman style measuring to get the numbers. Your spring seat and bind height don't matter if you're not changing springs. What matters is the distance between the bottom of your retainer and top of the valve stem seal. What I did was install the stem seals, mock up the retainer and keeper into place without the spring and then mic the distance, subtracting a massive .062" for safety margin. This thread is reminding me of how fun that was. |
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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