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232 rebuild questions |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I can't say I ever had a 232 oiling issue............ Yeah, the 4.0 head is better but geesh, good grief - the 232 ain't a big engine, and it's smaller than either the 258 or 242 (4.0) so really what would be gained? The engine is a pump and adding a fantastic head with all these abilities to a small engine isn't going to gain that much - port match, etc. and you'll gain without the hassle. Move to better intake design, better exhaust manifold design, and in doing so you LIGHTEN the whole car - there's a gain for ya! If you take anything off the head, as mentioned, you have to also reduce the push rod length IF you kept all else the same. Take off .024 like I did on my 4.0 and you would need to shorten the push rods by that much, IF all else was THE SAME. If you change anything else, such as cam, then you start from scratch on push rods. I was told on a 4.0 that taking off .024 would change compression "roughly half a point" IF I recall the machinist correctly and he'd done a lot of those heads. Changes to head (shaving) cam or valve train will require you check and set the lifter preload. No, I do not mean "adjustable valve lash" or adjustable lifters, I mean all hydraulic tappet engines of these eras have a preload - the lifter plunger was pushed down .xx - it wasn't that the lash was barely removed, it means the lifter plunger was depressed so many thousandths of an inch! You also want the rocker arm to swipe the valve stem in a certain way, so the peak pressure and time occur with the rocker arm centered on the valve stem end. Otherwise you load the valve stem sideways and cause a lot of wear, friction, etc. and lose valve train efficiency. You will need to set lifter preload and make sure the rockers hit the valves in the correct places. I know, some will say "BS you don't need to do all that" but they are just tossing and hoping and having good luck. the CORRECT way that a professional will do it is to set both and do it right. I swapped to a Comp cam (great 6 cyl cams) and roller rockers and shaved the head on my 4.0 and did it all - shimming the rockers, choosing push rods, and more. All of this applies to any engine - 232, 258, 4.0, whatever. If you swap intakes, a good exhaust to consider is the 1981 and later stock exhaust manifold. It's similar to the V8 moving from a log to a free flow manifold in a way - it's sleeker and more smooth in the curves, far more efficient. The 1981+ intake will be 2bbl, will have water heating and an electric heater underneath the middle. It will require either a manual choke or moving to an electric choke as you will no longer have the ability to heat the choke. So whatever you do, headers, later exhaust, different intake, whatever, you'll have other changes to make. And if you go electric choke, do like AMC did in the 80s - run the choke power through a different oil pressure switch so it's only powered when the engine is running....... otherwise when you turn the key on it starts opening the choke, engine running or not. Checking rocker to valve contact area, black sharpie marker....... I used shims under the rocker pedestals. I ended up with perfect lifter preload and the rockers pretty well running centered across the valves. I had Clifford Research headers on my 68 232. Everything was a close fit as they are really intended for JEEPS - and the clutch linkage clearance was a particular problem. I had to grind linkage and use a ball-peen hammer on the header tubes in a couple of spots. Ugh. I think Jeep was the only reason headers ever really even existed for the AMC 6s. This means - good luck. |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/boltmod.shtml
I had an engine given to me that couldn't seem to get oil up top even with the head bolt mod. I ended up drilling and tapping a hole in the side of the oil gallery pedestal and then going through the side of the valve cover with a line. I could have gone through the top but I used to see that on the old Ford Y blocks and that doesn't look so good. If you are getting oil to the front rockers that you can see through the oil fill cap hole then you should be good. Just removing the head bolts and cleaning the holes as part of your overhaul process will give you lots more years. |
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kronik
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/13/2011 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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I’m seeing starters advertised to fit the inline 6s and the v8s both. I didn’t know the they were the same. Is there a difference in the passenger vs driver starters? They must rotate a different direction right? Or can you “clock” the body of the starter to fit either side?
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65 American
67 American |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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It's been a while but I remember running the electric choke through the oil pressure sending unit going back to the oil pressure gauge.
I somehow lucked out with this on a set of Crowers and didn't need anything. I would use them in a 232. The exhaust is an issue to me only because I don't like to wail on headers just to get them to fit. It probably makes more power after a bunch of dents and pinches in every tube but engines don't care. To me it's just a vanity thing. Functionally, I had issues clearing my axle bracket and slave cylinder with the later 4.0 manifold and can't justify $400+ on a new Banks header. I might have to find the older Renix tube exhaust to finish the Eagle. You know what it looks like. |
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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Engines turn the same way so it doesn't matter where around the circumference of the ring gear the starter goes.
On the early 232's the oil goes from the long horizontal oil gallery to the cam bearings. To get to the top it has to go around the second to last cam bearing and then up another small gallery to the head. |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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But...not everybody is using their classic car to commute through damp winter weather like you and I did/do. Most people only go to car shows on summer weekends and carburetor icing and fuel vaporization aren't even terms most people know now. So...to each their own to meet their individual needs.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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It wasn't just the 232 engine that was good in winter, the rest of the 65 Rambler was too. We took it out after a heavy fresh snowfall and got quite a few miles in on a logging road before spinning out up a hill. Better snow tires or chains would have gotten us through.
Plan B, go back for the Land Rover. Following the same tracks it didn't get in but a couple of miles before the engine quit. A look inside the engine compartment revealed snow packed to the underside of the hood and that the Lucas electrics had not like that. It took quite a lot of digging to get it cleaned out and started again to turn around for home. |
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614 |
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CDNragtop
AMC Fan Joined: Feb/03/2016 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Sigh. Thanks guys.
The good old (V8) days were so much easier to add performance. I think I'll stay with the stock 232 and just do the best I can with a new exhaust system and muffler. Maybe one day I'll get ambitious and do a drivetrain swap to either a 4.0l or V8.
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Then there was the time the thermostat in my air cleaner that controls the damper inside failed in the "heat on" position all the time and I didn't know it. When I finally discovered what was wrong it was the middle of summer. I swear I gained 20 horsepower when I fixed that thermostat so it wasn't funneling 200 degree air into my carburetor through a tiny little duct all the time. Point is just like you said: you don't want those things stuck in "heat on" all the time or in "heat off" all the time.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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