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232 rebuild questions

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by kronik kronik wrote:

Thanks for all the great info everyone.

I think I’m going keep the 232 head that I have. I thought I read something about an oiling issue due to a narrow passage which can be solved by modifying a head bolt? Can somebody please explain.

How much should I remove from the head to achieve 9.5 CR? Considering I might use a cam with lift in the low .500s... I don’t want to take off too much.

As far as intake goes, I think I will use an offy 4 barrel or an 80s aluminum 2 barrel at least. I can’t upgrade the cam without doing the intake and exhaust.

Exhaust will be replaced with some type of header hopefully. Can’t seem to find much for the driver side starter though.


I can't say I ever had a 232 oiling issue............ 

Yeah, the 4.0 head is better but geesh, good grief - the 232 ain't a big engine, and it's smaller than either the 258 or 242 (4.0) so really what would be gained? The engine is a pump and adding a fantastic head with all these abilities to a small engine isn't going to gain that much - port match, etc. and you'll gain without the hassle. Move to better intake design, better exhaust manifold design, and in doing so you LIGHTEN the whole car - there's a gain for ya!

If you take anything off the head, as mentioned, you have to also reduce the push rod length IF you kept all else the same.  Take off .024 like I did on my 4.0 and you would need to shorten the push rods by that much, IF all else was THE SAME. If you change anything else, such as cam, then you start from scratch on push rods. 
I was told on a 4.0 that taking off .024 would change compression "roughly half a point" IF I recall the machinist correctly and he'd done a lot of those heads. 
Changes to head (shaving) cam or valve train will require you check and set the lifter preload. No, I do not mean "adjustable valve lash" or adjustable lifters, I mean all hydraulic tappet engines of these eras have a preload - the lifter plunger was pushed down .xx - it wasn't that the lash was barely removed, it means the lifter plunger was depressed so many thousandths of an inch!
You also want the rocker arm to swipe the valve stem in a certain way, so the peak pressure and time occur with the rocker arm centered on the valve stem end. Otherwise you load the valve stem sideways and cause a lot of wear, friction, etc. and lose valve train efficiency. 
You will need to set lifter preload and make sure the rockers hit the valves in the correct places. I know, some will say "BS you don't need to do all that" but they are just tossing and hoping and having good luck. the CORRECT way that a professional will do it is to set both and do it right. I swapped to a Comp cam (great 6 cyl cams) and roller rockers and shaved the head on my 4.0 and did it all - shimming the rockers, choosing push rods, and more.
All of this applies to any engine - 232, 258, 4.0, whatever.

If you swap intakes, a good exhaust to consider is the 1981 and later stock exhaust manifold. It's similar to the V8 moving from a log to a free flow manifold in a way - it's sleeker and more smooth in the curves, far more efficient. The 1981+ intake will be 2bbl, will have water heating and an electric heater underneath the middle. It will require either a manual choke or moving to an electric choke as you will no longer have the ability to heat the choke. 
So whatever you do, headers, later exhaust, different intake, whatever, you'll have other changes to make. And if you go electric choke, do like AMC did in the 80s - run the choke power through a different oil pressure switch so it's only powered when the engine is running....... otherwise when you turn the key on it starts opening the choke, engine running or not. 

Checking rocker to valve contact area, black sharpie marker....... I used shims under the rocker pedestals. I ended up with perfect lifter preload and the rockers pretty well running centered across the valves. 

I had Clifford Research headers on my 68 232. Everything was a close fit as they are really intended for JEEPS - and the clutch linkage clearance was a particular problem. I had to grind linkage and use a ball-peen hammer on the header tubes in a couple of spots. Ugh. I think Jeep was the only reason headers ever really even existed for the AMC 6s. This means - good luck. 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 9:52pm
http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/boltmod.shtml

I had an engine given to me that couldn't seem to get oil up top even with the head bolt mod. I ended up drilling and tapping a hole in the side of the oil gallery pedestal and then going through the side of the valve cover with a line. I could have gone through the top but I used to see that on the old Ford Y blocks and that doesn't look so good.

If you are getting oil to the front rockers that you can see through the oil fill cap hole then you should be good. Just removing the head bolts and cleaning the holes as part of your overhaul process will give you lots more years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kronik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 10:18pm
I’m seeing starters advertised to fit the inline 6s and the v8s both. I didn’t know the they were the same. Is there a difference in the passenger vs driver starters? They must rotate a different direction right? Or can you “clock” the body of the starter to fit either side?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

And if you go electric choke, do like AMC did in the 80s - run the choke power through a different oil pressure switch so it's only powered when the engine is running....... otherwise when you turn the key on it starts opening the choke, engine running or not.

It's been a while but I remember running the electric choke through the oil pressure sending unit going back to the oil pressure gauge.
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Checking rocker to valve contact area, black sharpie marker....... I used shims under the rocker pedestals. I ended up with perfect lifter preload and the rockers pretty well running centered across the valves.

I somehow lucked out with this on a set of Crowers and didn't need anything. I would use them in a 232. The exhaust is an issue to me only because I don't like to wail on headers just to get them to fit. It probably makes more power after a bunch of dents and pinches in every tube but engines don't care. To me it's just a vanity thing. Functionally, I had issues clearing my axle bracket and slave cylinder with the later 4.0 manifold and can't justify $400+ on a new Banks header. I might have to find the older Renix tube exhaust to finish the Eagle. You know what it looks like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 11:19pm
Engines turn the same way so it doesn't matter where around the circumference of the ring gear the starter goes.

On the early 232's the oil goes from the long horizontal oil gallery to the cam bearings. To get to the top it has to go around the second to last cam bearing and then up another small gallery to the head.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 3:01am
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:


I see Matt paid attention in science classes and didn't necessarily need to learn this in automotive shop classes.

I operated that way for a bit -sticky throttle, poor driveability, then yanked the headers and put another intake and exhaust on it. Iowa has some VERY dry air in the cool days but also has very humid air on cool or cold days - and it was just too much trouble to deal with. 
I figured a lot out by commuting to my classes in college every day through Kansas winters with my 232 and watching my friends with their cars. Winter in Kansas is much like how you described Iowa: cold and damp. I used to call damp, chilly, 40-degree days with fog "carburetor icing weather". Most of my friends had muscle cars with fire-breathing V8s that became pitiful excuses for engines in weather like that. Most would start, run and make a bunch of noise for a few minutes, then ice up and stall. I memorized the sound of a Chevrolet 350's starter desperately cranking away to no avail. They modified their engines with all the standard aftermarket s#*t: Edelbrock carbs, Edelbrock intakes, Edelbrock cams, headers...or Holley or Offenhauser, or whatever. They were impressive on the drag strip in the summertime but that was all they were good for. They made fun of my "emissions-choked anemic six cylinder POS AMC" but they stopped the teasing after the first winter because my car always started, never hesitated, and never stalled. 

But...not everybody is using their classic car to commute through damp winter weather like you and I did/do. Most people only go to car shows on summer weekends and carburetor icing and fuel vaporization aren't even terms most people know now. So...to each their own to meet their individual needs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 9:36am
It wasn't just the 232 engine that was good in winter, the rest of the 65 Rambler was too. We took it out after a heavy fresh snowfall and got quite a few miles in on a logging road before spinning out up a hill. Better snow tires or chains would have gotten us through.

Plan B, go back for the Land Rover. Following the same tracks it didn't get in but a couple of miles before the engine quit. A look inside the engine compartment revealed snow packed to the underside of the hood and that the Lucas electrics had not like that. It took quite a lot of digging to get it cleaned out and started again to turn around for home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 9:51am
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:



Originally posted by billd billd wrote:


I see Matt paid attention in science classes and didn't necessarily need to learn this in automotive shop classes.

I operated that way for a bit -sticky throttle, poor driveability, then yanked the headers and put another intake and exhaust on it. Iowa has some VERY dry air in the cool days but also has very humid air on cool or cold days - and it was just too much trouble to deal with. 

I figured a lot out by commuting to my classes in college every day through Kansas winters with my 232 and watching my friends with their cars. Winter in Kansas is much like how you described Iowa: cold and damp. I used to call damp, chilly, 40-degree days with fog "carburetor icing weather". Most of my friends had muscle cars with fire-breathing V8s that became pitiful excuses for engines in weather like that. Most would start, run and make a bunch of noise for a few minutes, then ice up and stall. I memorized the sound of a Chevrolet 350's starter desperately cranking away to no avail. They modified their engines with all the standard aftermarket s#*t: Edelbrock carbs, Edelbrock intakes, Edelbrock cams, headers...or Holley or Offenhauser, or whatever. They were impressive on the drag strip in the summertime but that was all they were good for. They made fun of my "emissions-choked anemic six cylinder POS AMC" but they stopped the teasing after the first winter because my car always started, never hesitated, and never stalled. 

But...not everybody is using their classic car to commute through damp winter weather like you and I did/do. Most people only go to car shows on summer weekends and carburetor icing and fuel vaporization aren't even terms most people know now. So...to each their own to meet their individual needs. 

I had my car ice up when I was in college. The heat duct on the air cleaner wasn't hooked up. You can bet it was that was the day after. My car was missing the one part, so I hooked up so it was getting heat all the time. On my cars that I drive in the winter, I make sure all that works. And on certain V8s the crossover has to be clear for p proper choke operation,and also warm the intake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CDNragtop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 11:39am
Sigh. Thanks guys.

The good old (V8) days were so much easier to add performance. I think I'll stay with the stock 232 and just do the best I can with a new exhaust system and muffler. 

Maybe one day I'll get ambitious and do a drivetrain swap to either a 4.0l or V8.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 11:49am
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

I had my car ice up when I was in college. The heat duct on the air cleaner wasn't hooked up. You can bet it was that was the day after. My car was missing the one part, so I hooked up so it was getting heat all the time. On my cars that I drive in the winter, I make sure all that works. And on certain V8s the crossover has to be clear for p proper choke operation,and also warm the intake
Definitely. Just fooling around sometimes I would either unhook the preheater hose on the air cleaner or block open the heat riser damper on the exhaust manifold and either one of those things made the engine absolutely horrible, even in reasonably warm weather. 

Then there was the time the thermostat in my air cleaner that controls the damper inside failed in the "heat on" position all the time and I didn't know it. When I finally discovered what was wrong it was the middle of summer. I swear I gained 20 horsepower when I fixed that thermostat so it wasn't funneling 200 degree air into my carburetor through a tiny little duct all the time. 

Point is just like you said: you don't want those things stuck in "heat on" all the time or in "heat off" all the time.
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