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232 rebuild questions |
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kronik
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/13/2011 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Posted: Nov/18/2017 at 11:58am |
I am about to do a full rebuild on a 232 that’s in a 65 American. I haven’t quite decided which direction I want to go with the build, so I’m looking for a little advice.
It is currently factory 2 barrel carb. Tranny will be automatic BW m40 from DocCreer’s 69 wagon. The m35 that was in it is toast. Pretty sure they are interchangeable, difference being the kick down. The motor ran fine, but the rest of the car is getting restored so the motor can’t be left as is. I pulled it and tore it down. Everything looked good internally. Option 1... rebuild with a mild cam. Factory intake, carb, exhaust. This is the budget friendly build. Option 2... rebuild with 4.0 head, decent cam, carb intake, header. This is more desirable, but seems like significantly more time, work and money. It also leaves the door open to fuel injection. Option 3... rebuild with 4.0 head, pretty big cam, fuel injection, header. Maybe a turbo. This would be fun build, but maybe a little out of my budget. Option 4... rebuild with (insert amc forum member advice)... the build I never even thought of. Please correct me if I am wrong, or add any helpful information. Thanks. Researching the 4.0 head I have found that I will want: •••7120 casting from a 91-95. •••91 or newer exhaust to hopefully clear my driver side starter. •••Carb intake from a 80-89 258 (if I want a carb) A couple questions... Do I need to make changes to the oil system considering the push rod and rocker difference with a 4.0 head? Which fuel injection intake is best? What parts do I need for the computer? Crank sensor? O2 sensor? Throttle position sensor? Pistons from a different motor fit? I can’t find many aftermarket upgrade options. Does a water pump from a 4.0 work? I guess that’s about it. Thanks for reading. |
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65 American
67 American |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9061 |
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I like option 1 if it were my car. I would add Pertronix ignition or a DUI distributor. That will be the cheapest, easiest (and therefore the fastest) way to get the rebuild done. Have you water pump rebuilt by a reputable rebuilder might also be good, rather that trust an off the shelf rebuild. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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amcfool1
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/18/2011 Location: roanoke va Status: Offline Points: 1075 |
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hi, x2 on option #1, unless you're going racing, why reinvent the wheel. the 4.0 head will not add enough power just by itself to be worth the hassle/expense. IMO :)
Also, even with option #1, for more power later, you can always add a 4bbl Offenhauser intake and a smallish 4 bbl carb. Go with Pertronix for a stock look, and modern ignition, budget friendly as you keep your distributor, and can always swap back to points if needed. Also, another option, with option #1, also cost effective, replace old sixties int/exh manifold with 81+ split manifolds, much lighter, WILL bolt up, flow better, and are all AMC. and cheap in salvage yards still today. good luck, gz
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george z
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AMXRWB
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/25/2013 Location: Midwest Status: Offline Points: 1154 |
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The 4 Liter head will not be an easy swap if the engine has the old rail rocker system.
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6768rogues
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6241 |
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I would do #1 or go all the way with an entire 4.0, fuel injection, and Jeep overdrive tranny.
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mjt084
AMC Fan Joined: Oct/25/2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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In the same situation myself and curious to hear opinions on this. A little more complicated for me as I'm in Australia and there aren't a great deal of AMC Six performance parts over here
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232jav3sp
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2013 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2451 |
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Having warmed up two of these engines, I would get compression up to 9:1, use a dual pattern cam with 208/213 duration minimum, 213/220 maximum, Offy water heated dual plane, 500 Eddy 4v, Eagle exhaust manifold, 2.25 exhaust, and a Pertonix Ignitor in the stock distributor.
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mjt084
AMC Fan Joined: Oct/25/2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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232jav3sp,
When you say the Offy water heated dual plane do you mean the 5999DP? Not sure I need to worry too much about the water heating here in aus, normally we are trying to work out how to get cooler air into the engine! |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Cram as much fuel and air into it from 1000-3500 RPM as will fit into it, make it squeeze that air as tightly as you can without it igniting by itself, then get as much of the exhaust out as you can. A Holley 390 carb, 4bbl intake, compression around 9.5:1, a very mild cam of around 205* duration, but high valve lift, minor polish work in the head ports, and a set of long tube headers. It will make a butt load of torque.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Option 1 is good, option 2 is better. There is only one issue with putting a 4.0L head on the old block, and that is pushrod length. Someone on here did it, but I can't recall what pushrods they used. Oiling isn't an issue. The shaft rocker block has an oil passage that feeds one of the shaft supports. The newer head blocks that passage. The pedestal rocker of later models oil through the pushrods and lifters. You will be itching your old pushrods and using new lifters. All new lifters have an oiling hole, I don't recall if the old shaft rocker lifters have an oiling hole or not, but think they did just to lube the end of the pushrod.
The 4.0L head doesn't add enough power to justify using by itself. But when you add a decent cam and the better exhaust, and the nicer valve cover, it makes sense. ANY 4.0L head is better. A 2000-06 head is probably best for a street motor. Doesn't have ports as big as the earlier ones, but they are BETTER SHAPED to produce better power under 4000 rpm. They don't start to lose flow over the older 4.0L heads until over 4000, and not much of a loss then. So unless you're building a race engine they are GREAT heads. Just look for "TUPY" cast into the center of the head between the center two valves. 1999 and early 2000 castings were thing there, those with the TUPY cast in are the "fixed" heads. Don't know why Chrysler just didn't change the casting number, but they didn't. You can usually see the TUPY through the oil fill hole if you look carefully. I'd use an Isky 256 Super cam or something similar (Comp 252H, 260H -- Xtreme cams have very high lift and I wouldn't use one in a street engine). A Motorcraft 2100 with 1.08 or the slightly smaller 1.01 or 1.02 venturi diameter (287, 245, 240 cfm) would be good on the AMC 80+ 2V manifold with an adapter, but a Holley 390 on an Offy DP intake would be better, IMHO. |
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Frank Swygert
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