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232 low revs

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dafox99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dafox99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 232 low revs
    Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 10:19am
So, I've had my '66 Marlin for a couple of years.  Runs great.  Love it.  I just accepted it was a low-revver.  I'm not a hot-rodder (anymore), so I haven't really cared.  It's the 232 with 2 barrel carter.  When I do push it, however, I've noted it pretty much hits the wall at around 3300 rpms.  Way low.  But really great torque down low.  Well, out of curiosity, I looked up the torque/horsepower curves.  It's supposed to develop 155 ponies at around 4400 rpm.  Mine won't rev anywhere near that high.  Timing is set right .. carb seems to open completely.

Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 11:09am
The rated power in the 60s was with no exhaust system or air cleaner, and not pulling anything... usually not even the water pump. So it's not unusual that you can't come anywhere near that as installed. You can I prove things with a more open exhaust and air filter, and a better cam, but if you're happy with it just wait until those need replacement... then decide.
Frank Swygert
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dafox99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dafox99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 5:36pm
Thanks, Frank.  Part of my confusion is it would seem as you start to load the engine down .. restrict air and exhaust flow, start driving pumps, etc, the horsepower would come down, but I wouldn't think the curve would change so much.  Meaning, in first gear, the motor won't even hit 4400 rpm.  It clearly peaks around 3300 and then just flattens out.  I can then shift, and it'll, of course drop the revs, and pull just fine again.  Whether I get the full 155 hp or not is not so much the issue, but it seems my curve characteristics are much different than the published spec.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 6:39pm
Id say its not running up to par.   Id be thinking weak valve springs..  .It should rev up. It may not put out much power, but it should at least rev.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 11:08pm
so what is the symptom, exactly? will RPMs not increase past 3300, etc? at all? or just no power about 3300? will it fly like an Eagle downhill past 3300?

does is sputter or phart at high revs? "bog" (gas pedal feel mushy, that boggy sound...)?

have you checked that foot to the floor is really throttle wide open?

check spark advance with a timing light? should be 30-ish plus degrees of advance, parked in idle at 2500 rpm, with the vacuum hose on. off, 25 to 25ish.

pull out one (or all) spark plugs; first off, they should all look the same, no matter what they look like. hopfully not sooty/oily black, white or beige or something. post pics!

it may be just going through all the basics, giving each a good hard look, might solve it. the next-level diagnosis might be a compression check of all six cylinders...

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2019 at 10:17am
I got my first 232 in 1970.   Just a 1 bbl at first.
The first owner had installed a tach.   I found out soon it might rev to close to 6000 with no load before it would float the valves,  under load there wasn't much point in revving it past 4000,  because it rpm gain from that point was so slow you were slowing done your acceleration.
 Then when I installed the 4bbl intake and headers a few years later ,   but still stock cam , it useful revs increased to 5000 or so.  
But a few years of constantly revving  it had weakened the valve springs, because the valves started floating at lower and lower rpm,  eventually getting down close to 5000.
So In 1976 I took the head off, installed fresh guides, springs, polished the combustion chamber, exhaust passages, smoothed the intake passages, polished the valve stems, port matched it, and milled the head.  Still a stock cam though.
  That increased the float rpm to a little over 6500,  and the useful revs to about 5500.
I kept driving that car till 1986 or 87.   The valve float point gradually went down to where it eventually started lowering my useful revs point.

The point i'm trying to make is that a 40-50 year old engine is going to have a weak valve springs.   And it doesn't matter it it was on the road all those years or sitting somewhere in a garage most of that time. Steel fatigues, ( as in your valve springs) after constantly flexing it,  but its also going to lose tension from setting for years fully compressed for years.   Any time a engine isn't running some of the valves are held open by the cam,   just think of how being in a almost fully compressed state for 10 years or so could effect spring tension.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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FSJunkie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 1:40am
The power the engine makes installed in the car is different from what it made on a dyno to create the original advertised horsepower.

Both 232's that I've owned were stock. One was a 1969 with a two barrel carburetor and the other was a 1977 with a one barrel carburetor. Both pulled strong to 4000-4500. They'd rev higher, but there wasn't much point because it's not where the power was. Peak power was around 3600 but 4000 was still strong.

They actually have a pretty good top end. They feel almost like a V8 in how they drive, just a small one.

Your distributor mechanical advance may not be working right.
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1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
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1982 Concord D/L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 6:55am
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:

The power the engine makes installed in the car is different from what it made on a dyno to create the original advertised horsepower.

Both 232's that I've owned were stock. One was a 1969 with a two barrel carburetor and the other was a 1977 with a one barrel carburetor. Both pulled strong to 4000-4500. They'd rev higher, but there wasn't much point because it's not where the power was. Peak power was around 3600 but 4000 was still strong.

They actually have a pretty good top end. They feel almost like a V8 in how they drive, just a small one.

Your distributor mechanical advance may not be working right.

The 232 I was dealing with was one year old and had about 15,000 miles on it.

The engine you were dealing with were how many decades old,  and had how many miles on them ?

That age can make a lot of difference.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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dafox99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dafox99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 10:42am
Yeah ... I guess it could be floating valves ... such low revs for that, but symptoms fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dafox99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 10:54am
Hey guys .. thanks for all the info!

I bought it 2 years ago.  The guy said it had a fresh rebuild.  It looked like it .. several new parts, and freshly painted, but who knows.

The 2 bbl carb opens all the way.

If I'm in first, and keep accelerating, it pulls just fine.  I'm happy with the acceleration.  Around 3300 - 3500 the acceleration flattens.  The revs will keep going up.  Not sure how high, as just feels like it's really over-revving.  But, I'm clearly on the back side of the power curve as it just slowly creeps up.  Same in 2nd.  3rd, it will rev up to about 3300 (80 mph).

Timing .. odd.  NO timing mark.  I timed it by ear.  Set it back .. drove it ... advance a tad ... drove it .. just kept doing that until I got ping under acceleration at low revs, and dropped it back a tad.  Burning regular gas, and as advanced as possible with no pre-ignition.

I guess I'm liking the valve spring theory.  I've still got the guy's number.  I've never pulled the valve cover.

otherwise .. runs fantastic.  I got the idle mixture where I like it .. idles down smoothly .. around 700 - 800.  
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