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2 bbl on a 232 in a 69 Gladiator

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69gladiator View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69gladiator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/04/2016 at 7:21pm
Played with the Holley today cant get it to even idle. My son is upset because he spent the money on this "upgrade" and the truck is un-drivable. The old RBS ran great. Before I bring this rebuild carb back to the shop, does anyone have some ideas? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucas660 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/04/2016 at 10:35pm
Check the float level by uncrewing the sight hole screw and adjust the needle and seat until fuel is just under the threads. Bottom out the idle mixture screws and back them out a few turns. If the idle mixture screws have no effect you might have a blown power valve. Check your timing. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/05/2016 at 1:17pm
I remember earlier you posted they were machining your intake to take a 2 bbl carb.

Do you mean they took a 1 barrel intake and machined the top so you could bolt a 2 bbl on it ?

There's more difference between a 1 bbl intake and 2 bbl intake than just the surface where the carb bolts on,  it's hard to see unless you compare them side by side, the 2 bbl intake has a little bit bigger runners than the 1 bbl intake, plus the 1 bbl intake often has a tube going thru the main runner that's for coolant to heat the intake air, the 2 bbl intakes I've seen don't have that tube.

  So the combination will mean there's quite a bit of difference between the flow abilities of the two intakes, stock.  Just machining the top of 1 bbl intake to take a 2 bbl, doesn't make it a good 2 bbl intake.

  You don't mention what size Holley you're trying to use, 350 or 500 ?

  But if you're using a 500 cfm Holley on a adapted 1 bbl intake, that may be part of your problem. 

Though I think more likely it a problem with the carb itself, the power valve, or float level.

  You can't expect to do a fairly different carb change and not have to do some tuning on the carb.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69gladiator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/05/2016 at 4:26pm
FYI its a 350. I expected some issues but it wont idle enough to  even check the float level. There is also gas leaking from near the bottom plate below the bowl. The shop had this carb of the shelf. Wondering if was actually rebuilt. They open at 0800, I will be there!

The machine shop made an aluminum riser. They milled two bores tapered  into the diameter of the existing manifold. It looks pretty slick. No coolant tubes this is a Gen I manifold. I agree its likely a carb issue.  There have been many adapter plates made for this application.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/05/2016 at 4:52pm
I've never seen a 1bbl to 2 bbl adapter, or 2bbl to 4 bbl adapter that worked well, they all cause a lot of unwanted turbulence right below the carb base.

Even AMC didn't just put a bigger base on the 1 barrel manifold when they made a 2 bbl manifold, the runners are just a little bigger, though you have to measure it to see it.  But the open plenum under the carb is visibly bigger between the two intakes.

I don't think that is you main problem.  But I think to get the best out of that 2bbl, you should have tried to find a 2 bbl intake.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69gladiator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/07/2016 at 6:59pm
tyrodtom- Youre an excellent diagnostician ! Brought the carb back, they determined that the power valve was shot. The truck runs like a beast, especially in the low end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69gladiator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/23/2016 at 2:37pm
Project. Update- the 2 bbl upgrade was a tremendous improvement once we got the bugs out. Here's the latest issue; the engine has been making a lifter like tick , regularly. Occasionally,the engine makes a noise like a Jake brake. It stops usually when the engine is shut off. I brought the truck to the machine shop and of course the engine brake noise did not occur. They did say there's a slight warp in a push rod. They are going to replace it later this week. Today I drove the truck and the engine brake noise reoccurred and the tick became much louder. I'm thinking there's a bent valve that sticks open. I need some help from the forum before I bring the truck back to the machine shop.

Edited by 69gladiator - Aug/23/2016 at 2:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/24/2016 at 5:50am
You could have a sticking valve, not necessarily bent. If it's an old engine it could be a piece of carbon getting caught in the exhaust valve as it's being blown out. Can't remember if it's a newly rebuilt engine or one that sat for a while. If the later try decarbonizing -- dribble a bit of water down the carb while idling, keep your hand on the throttle to keep it running. A newly rebuilt engine could carbon up quick due to using a lot of oil during break-in (normal). Won't hurt it to try the water trick.

Another thing -- if the truck sat up a while there is residue from evaporated gas/old gas in the tank. Modern alcohol fuel leaves a nastier residue than gas from 30+ years ago. It also dissolves that residue much easier. So it gets in the new gas, and fumes up through the valve stems can cause the valves to stick. You can spray the sticking valves good with penetrating oil and work them loose, but until all the old residue is out they will stick again, usually in a random order, but the tightest guides will tend to stick first/more often. Until the tank is cleaned sticking will continue, could take months to dissolve all the old gunk, could just be a few weeks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69gladiator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/28/2016 at 7:35am
UPDATE:Brought the truck back to the machine shop that rebuilt the engine, and they said that it had a slightly bent pushrod. They said there was plenty of oil coming up to the valve train. They replaced all of the pushrods. I was a little peeved that they weren't replaced when the engine was rebuilt a year and a half ago.The engine is a bit quieter but the tick is still there. At idle its barely audible. As the the truck accelerates, the tick gets louder. Once it gets to speed, the noise is much less audible. I feel that a engine with around 5000 miles on it should not be making any noise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/28/2016 at 9:47am
A Jakebrake sound, do you mean under deceleration this noise is made? A tick?
Something like a Tick is not that hard to trace down using a long screw driver something like a Doctors stethoscope, an area of the engine can be isolated from other area's.
It is altogether possible that it could be an exhaust gasket leak too. This can come form not using the proper gaskets on the intake/exhaust manifold.
Or as some people insist on doing, none at all.
A bent push rod is not that difficult to either find or identify.
Trips back to a "shop" assuming common hourly charges at $60.00 an hour can get rather pricy rather quick, the AMC I6 engine of this vintage is not that hard to work on and for many of us, it was training grounds for a "shade tree mechanics" ability to do so when we and the engine was younger, suggestions in part come from the ability for DIY wrenching. I have not looked for service information on this engine for quite a long time but it and the 258 are very similar so almost any service information for almost any year you can find will help in repairs. Swap meets are certainly handy for that.
Installing a 2bbl carburetor should not be difficult, but it can present some fabrication difficulties.
Milled? To install a 2bbl carburetor? Where or how was that done. Adapters have been around for a long time that would allow bolting a 2bbl on to the existing intake manifold. Linkage? I keep a Speedway Catalog handy and there are accelerator pedals available that have universal applications although as earlier pointed out, one removed from a later model car including AMC will work and are cable operated.
LOKAR makes adapters for doing things like this too and makes it easy to get things done.
There should be no problem in getting a carburetor to work on your engine unless there is a problem with the carburetor so some care exercised in locating and procuring one is in order. I use swap meets for many of these parts and rebuild my own carburetors so diagnosing an ill in one is not hard.
Should you find that you do have a noisy lifter, the lifter used in AMC engines is the same one used since the announcement of the AMC V8 engine in 1957 and used in all AMC V8's to end of production and the 232, 199 and 258s. Push rods can be purchased individually from Auto Parts stores or at least could be the last time I bought some. The last time I purchased a performance cam shaft (A 270HL for an AMC I6 engine) and as it happens, for my 232 engine, Iskenderian sent me a box of 16 of them for an 8 cylinder installation as I only needed 12 I have 6 left over. I am not sure Lifters can be purchased individually but if they can't send me a PM and I'll send a new one to you if you need one.
Cost of repairs can be pricey, so if DIY is viable alternative maintenance costs will decrease significantly. And explanations of what might help may also make more sense when read by some one doing their own work and repairs.

Edited by uncljohn - Sep/28/2016 at 9:50am
70 390 5spd Donohue
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76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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