1970 AMS ALTERNATOR WIRING

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   THE TSM SAYS IF THE ALTERNATOR IS NOT GROUNDED PROPERLY THE IT WILL OVER CHARGE AND CAUSE DAMAGE TO WIRING; ALTERNATOR ETC.
I JUST TRIED TO PUT BACK ON THE 55 AMP MOTOROLA PREV OWNER HAD A ONE WIRE ON IT THE WASNT ALIGNED PROPPERLY......HE HAD TAKEN THE BLACK WIRE THAT NORMALLY GOES FROM THE REGULATOR TO THE BACK SIDE OF THE ALTERNATOR AND GROUNDED IT TO THE FENDER WELL...I PUT IT BACK THAT WAY INSTEAD OF ON THE BACK OF THE ALTERNATOR...WHEN STARTING THE CAR THE ALT LIGHT STAYED ON WHILE RUNNING.......SO I MOVED IT BACK TO THE BACK OF THE ALTERNATOR THE WAY IT SHOULD BE; AND THE ALTERNATOR STARTED SMOKING INTERNALLY AND NOW HAS A SHORT INTERNALLY SO I CANNOT CONNECT THE RED CHARGING WIRE WITHOUT A PROBLEM NOW.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY THIS MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED....
THANX RAY

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DHACKING Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/06/2014 Location: DALLAS FT WORTH Status: Offline Points: 184	Post Options Post Reply Quote DHACKING Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 1970 AMS ALTERNATOR WIRING Posted: Apr/06/2018 at 9:15am
	THE TSM SAYS IF THE ALTERNATOR IS NOT GROUNDED PROPERLY THE IT WILL OVER CHARGE AND CAUSE DAMAGE TO WIRING; ALTERNATOR ETC. I JUST TRIED TO PUT BACK ON THE 55 AMP MOTOROLA PREV OWNER HAD A ONE WIRE ON IT THE WASNT ALIGNED PROPPERLY......HE HAD TAKEN THE BLACK WIRE THAT NORMALLY GOES FROM THE REGULATOR TO THE BACK SIDE OF THE ALTERNATOR AND GROUNDED IT TO THE FENDER WELL...I PUT IT BACK THAT WAY INSTEAD OF ON THE BACK OF THE ALTERNATOR...WHEN STARTING THE CAR THE ALT LIGHT STAYED ON WHILE RUNNING.......SO I MOVED IT BACK TO THE BACK OF THE ALTERNATOR THE WAY IT SHOULD BE; AND THE ALTERNATOR STARTED SMOKING INTERNALLY AND NOW HAS A SHORT INTERNALLY SO I CANNOT CONNECT THE RED CHARGING WIRE WITHOUT A PROBLEM NOW. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY THIS MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED.... THANX RAY
	RAYMON H

Lyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/17/2014 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 772	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 7:59am
	Well first you don'd know how the person wired the one wire alternator so your going to have to trace all the wiring. If the alternator "smoked" then the person removed the fusable link, that needs to be replaced. The black ground wire is a mystery of how things were wired but the engine ground strap should be checked. The voltage regulator is likely shot also. This doesn't realy help but your going to have to go over everything from scratch.

6PakBee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457	Post Options Post Reply Quote 6PakBee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 8:10am
	Let me see if I understand what happened, the PO had put a one wire alternator on the car. What did he do with the original regulator and wiring harness? If removed, did you replace all of that in addition to the alternator? Are you sure you had everything connected correctly?
	Roger Gazur 1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 10:00am
	Did you look at my posts/stickies related to Motorola/stock charging system wiring? Black goes directly from regulator to alternator - NO PLACE ELSE. It's a home run. Did you put that black wire where it belongs on the alternator - (and that depends on the YEAR OF YOUR CAR!!) For 1970 and later there's a spade connector on the brush cover plate for the ground. The black wire has a female "spade" connector that slips over the brush plate connector. That is right next to the green wire which goes on the brush terminal Green goes from regulator DIRECTLY to alternator brushes - NO PLACE ELSE. Regulator orange goes to back of alternator AND to dash ALT light. Regulator yellow goes to ignition coil feed from ignition switch - exact location it ties to the main harness can vary with year and engine (6 vs 8 for some reason) If the black wire was put any place other than that flat spade connector on the brush cover plate or on one of the negative diode studs on the right side of the alternator, things will fry (right side meaning as you look at the back of the alternator with the brush cover at the TOP, the two studs on the right will be ground the ones on the left will be POSITIVE or output and will be HOT. I always define left or right by the brushes at the top making left hot and right ground)
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com

DHACKING Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/06/2014 Location: DALLAS FT WORTH Status: Offline Points: 184	Post Options Post Reply Quote DHACKING Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 11:06pm
	thanx for all the feedback...the prev owner had the black wire screwed to the fender well...that is where I put it back to at first...then after running the car several times with no issue...up to 30 minutes...I realized by the wiring schematic that I should move it to the alternator ground terminal...my alternator light would not go off and I had hoped this would solve the problem...I also read in the tsm that if not grounded properly...that it could cause severe damage...what's weird is immediately after moving the black wire to the ground terminal this is when the alt smoked...I immediately shut engine off and removed the battery terminals...alt was definattely damaged...after one more attempt to hook it back up and checking that ALL CONNECTIONS WERE ACCURATE...it was obvious the alternator had an internal short...every time I would simply touch the big red wire to the terminal on the alternator I would get a spark. the prevous owner DID leave the voltage regulator hooked up. NOW HERE IS THE REALLY WIERD PART... I had a spare alternator rebuilt from 30 yrs ago...(the first one was also rebuilt from the same vendor 30 yrs ago) still in the box...it just wasn't as nice cosmetically; that is why I used the one that I did. I was so convinced after enlarging the schematic to 4 times the size from the tsm to make it easier to read; I must have reviewed it 20 times.......hooked up the "other" rebuilt alternator that I had...everything worked perfect!!!!!! No burning smell from alternator...... Alternator dash light went off immediately after starting.... go figure..... only thing I could POSSIBLY figure out is one other simple change I made hooking it up this time... all the alt brackets were painted with several coats of paint and mounting bolts were also painted.........this time I loosened and tightened the bolts several times to ensure that the paint had been scratched enough to ensure a good ground to the block 'ASSUMING" the ground is carried from the ground terminal that is obviously screwed directly to the alternator housing...thinking the then housing carries the ground to the engine block etc...... so after running the engine several times up to any where from 10 minutes to even an hour..no more of the previous problems exits.... BUT ONE NEW PROBLEM.... ignition switch problem...I have power to all circuits; lights; ignition coil; radio; dash lights but CAR IWLL NOT CRANK WITH KEY SWITCH..I NOW HAVE TO "CRANK" THE CAR BY JUMPING THE SOLIONOID... so now im wondering if the shorted/smoking alternator damaged one of the fusable links to the ignition switch....ive read the tsm a couple times about this but im not very well versed in the "order" of these circuits path etc. again THANX FOR ALL THE REPLIES....and the one of the picture of the alternator with arrows added is great.....the tsm pic of the back of the alternator is very fuzzy in the 70 tsm... so now any info on my "new" problem would be appreciated and helpful.. respectfully; Raymon
	RAYMON H

DHACKING Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/06/2014 Location: DALLAS FT WORTH Status: Offline Points: 184	Post Options Post Reply Quote DHACKING Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 11:11pm
	forgot to mention one other thing...the "red" plate on the back of all the alternators I see do not exist on both of my old rebuilt alternators; and also is not on my 70 jav that I use to compare things to because it is 95% orginal... what is the purpose of this red plate?
	RAYMON H

DHACKING Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/06/2014 Location: DALLAS FT WORTH Status: Offline Points: 184	Post Options Post Reply Quote DHACKING Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 12:08am
	TOPPIC LINE SHOULD READ 1970 "AMX" ALTERNATOR WIRING...SORRY
	RAYMON H

6PakBee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457	Post Options Post Reply Quote 6PakBee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 8:33am
	The 'red plate' on the back of the alternator is the isolation diode. 55 amp has the double diode (billd's photo), 35 amp has the single diode. On your no-crank situation, typically it'll be the neutral start switch if an automatic, or the ignition switch itself. You'll just have to sit down with the TSM wiring diagram and work backwards from the solenoid.
	Roger Gazur 1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach