1966 american rogue brakes

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   I need help. I replaced everything on the brakes, wheel cylinders, lines, master cylinder, all hardware and pads. It is a drum brake all around system. The car barely stops. I have to put my foot to the floor and then they grab, but not very well. They go from no brakes to locking up within the last inch of foot travel. Are they supposed to be that bad? Does anyone know where I can get a booster that will work for this system and will it help if I install it on a four wheel drum brake system. 

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rogue lover Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/30/2012 Location: gettysburg Pa. Status: Offline Points: 36	Post Options Post Reply Quote rogue lover Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 1966 american rogue brakes Posted: Jul/22/2014 at 11:46am
	I need help. I replaced everything on the brakes, wheel cylinders, lines, master cylinder, all hardware and pads. It is a drum brake all around system. The car barely stops. I have to put my foot to the floor and then they grab, but not very well. They go from no brakes to locking up within the last inch of foot travel. Are they supposed to be that bad? Does anyone know where I can get a booster that will work for this system and will it help if I install it on a four wheel drum brake system.
	It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye

rocklandrambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/09/2013 Location: Nanuet, NY Status: Offline Points: 3953	Post Options Post Reply Quote rocklandrambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/22/2014 at 1:11pm
	Don't be thinking about a booster until you get the system you have now to work properly. Sounds like it wasn't bled properly. I'd go over everything again and check. Also remember that NEW parts aren't necessarily GOOD parts. Why did you replace everything? Was there a problem?
	Past AMC's 1974 Hornet X (new) 1975 Gremlin X (new) 1964 Classic 660 Cross Country 1965 American 440-H

brahlf Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Feb/16/2010 Location: Waukesha Status: Offline Points: 361	Post Options Post Reply Quote brahlf Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/22/2014 at 1:17pm
	Did you put the shoes on correctly? There is a primary and a secondary shoe. If not installed correctly you'll have problems. Put the car on four stands and have someone slowly step on the brakes. Manually try and turn each wheel and see if they are actuating. Did you replace the front hoses? If not they could be blocked internally and you would not see it.
	Bruce 1969 American wagon 290 1966 American Convert 290 1972 Gremlin X Factory 304 1978 Matador Wagon 360 1989 Jeep Comanche 3 AMC Eagles, not running yet

KermitDRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/06/2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 2579	Post Options Post Reply Quote KermitDRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/22/2014 at 1:53pm
	The drum brake systems work pretty well and what you describe isn't normal. Besides the system not being bled completely, a low brake pedal can also be caused by the shoes not being adjusted properly. The initial adjustment is a slight drag on the drum when you spin it without the wheel attached. Once you get it to that point, the self-adjusters should be able to fine-tune the adjustment. You'll need to get the car up to a couple of miles per hour in reverse and make a bunch of hard, complete stops in reverse. You can expect some noise and pulling while this is happening. Once the pedal quits coming up, you're done. You may need to do this 20 times or more. If everything is assembled properly, the brakes should eb working pretty well at this point and will get a little better after a few hundred miles as the shoes wear into the drums better. You also need to be aware of stupid old car stuff that a shop manual isn't going to cover. For example, you need to check the backing plates to make sure that the shoe rub blocks aren't damaged. Gouges in them are pretty common and fixing them ranges from a simple filing to having to weld and grind them. If your shoes were relined, you can also have problems with them being twisted or otherwise bent so it's best to check them against the drum to make sure they fit properly (there shouldn't be any gaps between the shoes and the drums). BTW, I think your car has a Wagner system on it (large, rectangual master cylinder) which are typically harder to find parts for. The brake hoses, drums, and a couple of brake lines are all that interchange between Wagner and Bendix brake systems. Did you get the correct parts for your car? I don't think you can put Bendix wheel cylinders on Wagner backing plates but you could probably get everything else to "fit" but not work well. Matt
	1967 American wagon http://www.mattsoldcars.com

rogue lover Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/30/2012 Location: gettysburg Pa. Status: Offline Points: 36	Post Options Post Reply Quote rogue lover Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/22/2014 at 2:13pm
	all of the wheels are engaging but not very well. I am going to get it on jacks later today and verify the pads are on correctly and check the front lines again. I'll let you know when I get that done, thanks

rogue lover Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/30/2012 Location: gettysburg Pa. Status: Offline Points: 36	Post Options Post Reply Quote rogue lover Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/22/2014 at 2:18pm
	I did try the adjustment by backing up. I think you are right, it's a wagner system. I am going to check the front hoses but I did replace them
	It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/23/2014 at 12:20am
	i'd bet money that it's simply not bled well, assuming everything's assembled right. second likely possibility is too much shoe-to-drum clearance, eg. adjustment. with the wheel off the ground, it should just scrape ("hiss....") when you spin the tire... you MUST -- must! -- bench bleed new master cylinders. it always takes far, far longer than seems reasonable. it's not hard, just trickily specific. make up brake lines that go out of the ports and back into the resevoir, mount the master in a vise -- you CANNOT do this on-car -- by one ear so that it's perfectly level, and with a fat screwdriver or something, work the piston until every single, tiny, microscopic, air bubble is gone. every single one. then install. you'll get a tiny bit of air in there when you attach the lines, but regular bleeding fixes that. you bleed from the furthest-away line on each circuit (usually american passenger side) then the closest. might take you two bleeds. this is one of those tasks you can't hurry or short-circuit....
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

george w Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/27/2013 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote george w Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/23/2014 at 5:05am
	Are you sure you installed the brake shoes in the correct orientation ? The brake shoes are not the same. There's a primary shoe and a secondary shoe. Typically the lining amount differs. The primary shoe faces forward. You also must manually adjust the shoes first as described above
	Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.