1965 m35 disassembly help!

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   Broken rings are a cause of low pressure listed many times in the TSM. If not enough pressure is behind the clutch pack it stands to reason they would slip. I think that getting those tiny rings in without breaking is the most delicate part of the assembly process. They are cast iron and there is no other way but they spread open somewhat while getting them to the grooves. After I ruined a couple Farna gave the suggestion of using a hose clamp to shrink them back into place. That made it easier to get the components back together without the rings jamming up. The larger rings lock together so not a problem with them.

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vinny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837	Post Options Post Reply Quote vinny Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/11/2015 at 7:51am
	Broken rings are a cause of low pressure listed many times in the TSM. If not enough pressure is behind the clutch pack it stands to reason they would slip. I think that getting those tiny rings in without breaking is the most delicate part of the assembly process. They are cast iron and there is no other way but they spread open somewhat while getting them to the grooves. After I ruined a couple Farna gave the suggestion of using a hose clamp to shrink them back into place. That made it easier to get the components back together without the rings jamming up. The larger rings lock together so not a problem with them.

calereeves Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91	Post Options Post Reply Quote calereeves Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/12/2015 at 2:49am
	I just had one of those moments where you either have to laugh or throw things: I finished getting the internals assembled. I used the hose clamp trick and followed the TSM verbatim. Everything went really smoothly. Then I walked away for a while and realized I hadn't installed the front pump gasket. No big deal... loosen the VB, pull the tubes off, and pull the pump. Except that when I pulled the pump off, I pulled the front clutch drum off of the sun shaft. GAHHHHHH!!!!! I gave it a go of using a hose clamp inside the tranny, much more cramped than doing it on the bench. I THINK I got it back together right, but how do I know for sure? How much of a gap should there be between the drums? I'm going to walk away from it again now, as my frustration is peaked. When I return, I may pull the front clutch pack apart while it's on the sun gear shaft to see if it's seated all the way.
	1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country

calereeves Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91	Post Options Post Reply Quote calereeves Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/12/2015 at 4:46pm
	I ended up pulling the input shaft, clutches, and clutch hub out of the front drum to make sure the sun shaft was fully seated. It was--thankfully! Got everything buttoned up and now I'm lifting the car up to get back under it. Still looking for a TV/kickdown cable...
	1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country

vinny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837	Post Options Post Reply Quote vinny Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/13/2015 at 8:32am
	I also have a bad TV cable. I wonder if it is possible to replace the center cable by making up some ends and swaging them on.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/13/2015 at 5:35pm
	Vinny, that will work as long as the inside of the original cable sheath is good, and the ends don't pull off. I've revived TV cables by soaking them a day or two in ATF and acetone or diesel fuel (50/59 mix). Acetone works better, but evaporates quicker. Coil the cable in a bucket then fill with enough to completely cover it. Covering the bucket helps with fumes and slows acetone evaporation. Work it a bit, and soak some more if necessary. The plastic covering may come off, but don't fret that. Many cables come both ways -- with or without that covering. Without means you can spray it with penetrating oil from the outside and free it up or keep it free. If you don't like the plain metal wrapped covering get some tubing the cable will slip into. Doesn't always work, and is no help if the clevis is pulled off one end, but in many cases it saves the day.
	Frank Swygert

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/13/2015 at 5:41pm
	If the clutches are worn down they can slip, and if the bands are worn they will slip. Running it too long while it's slipping will fry it. That might be the case with yours. There is a mod to drill a very small hole in the reverse servo and stick a cotter pin in it. I don't recall the details, but sometimes the rear servo (for reverse) can retain pressure and drag the rear band while in forward gears. The small hole basically makes a "controlled leak". As long as the trans is pumping fluid in the servo it doesn't leak enough past the cotter pin to hurt reverse operation, but when the trans stops pumping fluid in the servo there is enough of a leak that it won't hold the band. I don't recall the size or position of the hole, other than a small hole in the back of the servo so it doesn't interfere with operation, and the hole is just large enough to get a small cotter pin in. I seem to recall something like an 0.060" hole, but I wouldn't swear to it.
	Frank Swygert

calereeves Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91	Post Options Post Reply Quote calereeves Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/22/2015 at 11:54pm
	ARRRGGGHHHHHH! Free Rambler. Bring trailer. You load. Might be on fire if you don't hurry. Got a new TV cable today. Was all excited to get the car back on the road. Filled it with fluid, ran through the gears, checked the fluid, then let the jacks down. Nothing. Nothing at all. No movement whatsoever. WTF? Could it be the torque converter? If the front pump is good, but the rear pump is bad, could it cause this? I'm at my wits end here. Never had this much trouble solving an automotive problem.
	1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country

calereeves Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91	Post Options Post Reply Quote calereeves Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/23/2015 at 12:04am
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	1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/23/2015 at 6:47am
	Could be torque converter, but I'd pull the valve body and thoroughly clean it. Could you have displaced the linkage inside the trans when you replaced the TV cable? That's a possibility. The rear pump will have no effect on trans operation. It's there so that the car can be push started -- it's only purpose AFAIK. The rear pump is turned by the driveshaft, not the rest of the trans. Get up to about 15-20 mph and it will power the trans and car can be push started. Below that speed it doesn't create enough pressure to hold clutches and bands. Later models eliminated the rear pump
	Frank Swygert

calereeves Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91	Post Options Post Reply Quote calereeves Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/23/2015 at 11:25am
	I completely disassembled the valve body before I rebuilt, hoping that was the issue to start with. I guess I could pull it back apart, but I'm fairly confident that it's both clean, and correctly reassembled. I know the shift linkage is still connected, I checked it before I put the pan back on. When the tranny failed this time around, it was a strange intermittent problem. I started a thread about that, I guess I need to revist it and get to the root of the failure.
	1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country