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1963 Rambler American L-Head Tick |
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hydeparkrambler
AMC Fan Joined: May/08/2018 Location: Hyde Park Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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it is louder when i am on the gas and I have a stethoscope and have heard the sound to be slightly near the back of the engine around the 2nd spark plug in from the firewall. but its not dramatically louder. I will have to try tomorrow to see if i can hear anything through the dipstick. I never thought of doing that so great idea!. One other thing is sometimes i get a rattling noise like a marble rolling in a can when driving but when i push the clutch in it stops making that noise and continues making the knock still tho. Could those be related?
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tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6214 |
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That marble rolling in a can might be your throw-out bearing touching the pressure plate fingers, you might need to adjust a little more free play into your clutch.
On one of my cars I had to add a extra spring to the clutch linkage to keep the throw out bearing off the pressure plate levers, or fingers, with the clutch engaged. It already had a spring that was supposed to perform that function, but it had grown weak with time, and miles, and probably the linkage was stiffer too, and I had to help it with another spring.
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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hydeparkrambler
AMC Fan Joined: May/08/2018 Location: Hyde Park Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Yeah i was thinking the same thing with the throw out bearing! Is there an easy way to check that? Through that bottom bell housing right? I also read some where that the pressure plate may have come loose as well so if its not a throwout bearing ill have to look into that.
Im hoping i can make both of these noises stop before having to pull the motor out As always thank you for the input! |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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The first thing I'd do is pull that cover plate/pan off the bottom front of the bell housing. You can clearly see the clutch, so check every bolt holding it to the flywheel for tightness. You can rotate the engine with a wrench on any of those bolts. Tighten all of them. You might be able to reach the throw-out bearing. If you can, reach up and turn it. Since clutch is "out" the bearing should barely touch the clutch "fingers". You might need to loosen the clutch adjusting rod to release enough pressure to turn with your fingers. If you cn turn it, it should turn smoothly. If not, it probably needs replacing. You can pull the trans back and leave the bell attached to change that or the clutch, that's why it has that big pan shaped cover. If you go that far, look at the clutch and see how thick it is. Should be about 3/16" thick on each side (the wear "padding" on each side of the metal plate in the middle). If it's 1/8" or less I'd get a replacement. 1/8" is still good for a long time though, IIRC. 3/16" is probably a new clutch... been a while for me with a clutch!
You can easily pull the oil pan on a 63 American engine without pulling the engine. The K brace comes right out and the steering drag link easily comes off. I advise using jack stands on the body just behind the wheels (under firewall) or well out in front under the bumper mounts rather than anything supporting the wheels if you're taking that K brace out. The "frame" can expand under the engine -- the only flaw in the design. It DOES expand over time, but we're talking about a 55 year old car! Even my first 63 was 21 years old in 84 when I got it, and had seen a lot of miles. After 10+ years on the road they start to spread a little. Mine had spread enough at 21 years (was originally mom's car, then went through two teens before I got it!) that the stack of alignment shims was about an inch on one side, 3/4" on the other. Should be only about 1/4" stack on each side, so about 1-1/4" spread. My solution was to weld a piece of 1" angle at the bottom of each suspension mount, cut a piece of 3/4" pipe the correct dimension, then use a piece of 1/2" rod threaded on each end to pull it in. Worked great, and could easily be removed if I needed to get the pan off or engine out (engine was designed to go in/out from the bottom, real hard to pull from the top in those cars!). That K brace helps, but doesn't hold it in good enough for over 50 years of use. With only 36K miles yours may be a lot better than mine -- it had over 100K, engine and trans had been rebuilt around 85-90K. |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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What I was getting at before getting sidetracked in the second paragraph above is that you can pull the pan to check the bearings without pulling the engine. That would be the next step, but try listening at the oil fill/dipstick first as suggested.
If it's not a rod bearing it could still be a lifter. Check that #5 piston (#1 is in front, #6 in back) valves for adjustment again. Maybe the adjusting nut came loose. Could also be a burnt valve on that cylinder, which can be fixed without pulling engine if the seat isn't too bad. If the seat needs grinding the engine will need to come out. You will also need to find someone who can grind a flat-head seat. I don't think the same equipment is used as is for an OHV engine where you can easily move the head around. Might be a way to grind the seat without removing the engine, I don't know. |
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Frank Swygert
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hydeparkrambler
AMC Fan Joined: May/08/2018 Location: Hyde Park Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Thank you as always for the excellent thoughts! I have tried to put to my ear on the dipstick this afternoon like you said and I could not hear anything down there as well as using the stethoscope i hear nothing in the lower end. I do notice that the knock is coming from that #5/ #6 cylinders area. So my next plan is to double check and adjust the valves once again, then i will remove the head and check the valve seats (since i don't have to remove the engine to do so)!
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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You could try pulling spark plug wires individually to see if it is coming from one particular cylinder. You could also try pouring something through the carb at fast idle to de-carbonize the intake and combustion chambers. That worked well for me many years ago on an old Ford.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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vinny has some good advice! Pour a little water down the carb while it's running, with your hand on the throttle to keep it running. Just dribble it down. Could be carbon holding a valve slightly open if you're lucky.
Getting the head off is a chore! I'd spray the studs good with some kind of penetrating oil... PB Blaster is something that's good and you should find locally. Kroil would be better, or mix 50/50 acetone and tranny fluid -- that seems to work best, but keep it in a sealed container when not used as the acetone will evaporate eventually. The nuts will be easy to get off, then soak the studs over night. The studs rust around the holes, and if it's never been off (very likely!) it can be a bear! I had to resort to a steel wedge to get the first one I took off away from the head! That's a bit drastic, but it worked with no damage to block or head. Worked it around a little at a time. If the studs will come out after a good soak that would be the best way, but you still may need to drive a wedge or screwdriver in to break it loose. Try the starter first -- compression will sometimes break the seal, but not if it's rusted in all those stud holes. |
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Frank Swygert
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hydeparkrambler
AMC Fan Joined: May/08/2018 Location: Hyde Park Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Okay after lots of work I have mananged to think that the sound is coming from the clutch/flywheel area! I have adjusted all of my valves and all seem to be fine and when I got the car up on my trailer (that I use as a lift) also removed the exhaust manifold found a little hole so I welded it and cleaned everything and reinstalled the manifold with no leaks! So then I put my stethoscope on the flywheel cover and it seems to be the loudest there! So here’s the next thing! Does anyone have instructions of how to check all that out and or remove the clutch to check the pressure plate and such?
Thank you again for all the help so far!! You all guided me in great directions! |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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Maybe the T/O bearing is getting worn out or sticking or you've got some noise happening in the transmission. Can you see or hear anything from underneath with engine idling in neutral? It's been quite a few years since I had a manual in mine so memory is foggy on what you can see. Any difference in sound with foot on the clutch and in gear or wheels up and turning in gear?
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