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1963 classic aluminum 196 |
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vinny
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Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Posted: Mar/27/2012 at 9:15am |
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If it is an automatic the bell housing stays with the transmission.
Its been a while since I pulled an engine with a manual transmission but IIRC you take out the four bolts that hold the transmission to the bell housing and the bell housing comes out with the engine. Perhaps others could confirm or deny. With the head off you might be concerned with how to attach your lifting chain given that it is an aluminum block. Having never seen one I would be concerned about distortion if you plan on using the head bolt holes. Perhaps other members could advise you better than me on this. Not a big deal, your rad should be out and obvious stuff like exhaust and motor mount bolts. Basically you take the weight of the engine off the mounts and the engine slides forward, and then up and out. As it comes out you confirm that you haven't forgotten anything e.g. the bonding strap at the motor mount. A lot of us are rooting for you, given the rarity of it. |
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tyrodtom
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Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Online Points: 2876 |
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Posted: Mar/27/2012 at 10:21am |
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This car has a straight stick if I remember ?
When pulling a engine that has a standard transmission, if you want to leave the teansmission in the car, take the engine loose from the bellhousing. Don't take the bellhousing loose from the transmission. If you do the latter, you'll have to also take the clutch linkage loose. I almost always just take the engine out, unless I want the transmission out too.
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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vinny
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Posted: Mar/27/2012 at 12:31pm |
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If it were an iron block I might drop the old head back on and use some ready rod to thread into two head bolt holes, one on either end to attach the lifting chain. With the aluminum block, not sure. There may be easier and better attach points, just a suggestion.
Once you get it out you will probably want to look at the flywheel surface, pressure plate, disk and throw out bearing. |
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7132 |
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Posted: Mar/27/2012 at 7:00pm |
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Pulling the engine from a head bolt won't be a problem even with the AL block. It's not that flimsy, and you're just lifting the weight of the engine (and maybe the trans). You might want to use a shorter bolt than a head bolt to keep the chain close to the block. That puts the least strain on the block. Or just use one of the accessory mounting bosses up front and a bell housing bolt in the back May need longer bolts for those.
The trans can stay on the engine or come out with it -- your choice. If you're doing this all by yourself I'd leave the trans in, if you can get to the upper bell housing to engine bolts. With the head off I think you can, with the head on it's harder. Remember that -- put the head on AFTER the rest of the engine is in if it looks like it would be hard to get to those bolts. That also reduces the mass you have to move around to get it back in -- a big help if doing it without good help! For an auto car remover the bolts to the torque converter and leave the converter with the trans. Easy enough to pull the engine that way. On a manual car you will have to be able to move the engine forward 3-4 inches before pulling to clear the input shaft and clutch -- the clutch stays on the bell housing. You will need some help getting it back in as the splines need to line up. Jack one tire up and put a jackstand under it and put the trans in gear (any gear). Then a helper can turn the jacked up tire to line up the splines as you push back on the engine. That's the best way on a torque tube car -- don't have to move the axle or disconnect the torque tube. |
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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jt
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Joined: Mar/25/2011 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Posted: Mar/27/2012 at 7:44pm |
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Thanks for all of the advice - it helps!
I have an engine hoist reserved for Thursday, so wish me luck. I am going to pull just the engine. If the engine shop OKs the block I'll be on ebay first thing ordering the NOS head. If not, I'm on the hunt for an all cast iron engine. I can't wait to get this car on the road after sitting in a garage since 1986.
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Chrispycub
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Joined: Apr/01/2012 Location: Conroe, TX Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 8:20pm |
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Hey JT,
I know how you feel: I just bought a '63 Rambler Classic 660 and was barely able to get her home. She runs hot really quickly but I love this car (once I get running)! I don't know the first thing about mechanics but am hoping it's just a thermostat as I haven't seen any smoke coming out or any leaks under the car. I feel like I'm kinda lost on this so any advice would be really appreciated! I'd love to get a rebuild but I keep getting quotes around $3,800-$3,500 and I know this 195 engine isn't THAT complicated. |
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farna
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Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 8:40pm |
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RETORQUE THE HEAD BEFORE DRIVING ANY MORE!! This is a major maintenance issue with the 195.6. Head must be retorqued every 12-15K miles or every 2-3 years -- whichever comes first. If you don't it will blow the head gasket and possibly warp/crack the head.
Retorque the cylinder head bolts NOW. If it still runs hot after that you'll have to pull the head and send it to a machine shop to be checked for warping and cracks. Warping can be fixed, cracks probably not -- you have to find a good head. Finding heads not cracked is increasingly hard to do!! The first sign of a blown head gasket in most engines (especially these) is running hot. I doubt you have a thermostat problem at all, but won't hurt to change it. Just RETORQUE THAT HEAD BEFORE DRIVING ANY MORE!! The quotes you are getting for a rebuild are correct. They aren't bad at all if they include pulling and reinstalling the engine. The engine isn't complicated. The high rebuild cost is due to the fact that the engine went out of production in 1965 and parts are becoming scarce. There are few NOS or NORS pistons ("OS" means Old Stock) available -- VERY few. Occasionally you'll find a set on E-bay or from an specialty vendor, but the vendors know what they have and charge accordingly. Egge makes pistons for antique vehicles and that is where most of them come from. Pistons for this old engine are around $60-65 each, and you need new oversize pistons to rebuild. Edited by farna - Apr/05/2012 at 8:46pm |
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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Chrispycub
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Joined: Apr/01/2012 Location: Conroe, TX Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 10:25pm |
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I don't say this often: you're a godsend, Farna! Thanks for the good advice you've been posting- I've been reading a couple of your other posts also. My spouse is saying "crate motor!" but I'm a purist and would like to keep it close to original if it isn't so expensive. Any ideas- rebuild on stock vs. dropping a crate motor in there?
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raysinvegas
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Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Las Vegas NV Status: Online Points: 1633 |
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Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 12:01am |
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Chrispycub, look for a good used 196 before you spend crazy money on a rebuild. They ARE around, don't let anyone tell you they are not. If you haven't already done so, join AMCRC and search through their classified ads. You will be glad you did.
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Andy Ray
64 440H 64 440 Convertible 68 Javelin SST 343 69 Javelin SST 343 69 SC/Rambler
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7132 |
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Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 9:56am |
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I posted about a 232 in another thread. I'd do that before putting another brand crate motor in. A lot of people ditch the 196 just because, but for a weekend cruiser it's fine. You might be able to find a rebuilder who has a pre 72 232 ready to go, but I doubt it. Most will be 72+.
Before you decide to swap anything other than a pre 72 199/232 read the thread on rear end swaps in 56-66 torque tube cars (http://theamcforum.com/forum/rear-end-swap-5666-classic_topic11214.html). That is what will be required to put anything other than another 196 or a pre 72 199/232 in. It's not as simple as dropping in a crate motor -- you have to change the entire driveline (engine, transmission, dirve shaft [torque tube], and rear axle) AND build a rear suspension as well. It' not too difficult to do in your driveway or garage if you hire the welding out or have a buddy come by to weld for you, but it's not a simple bolt-in job either. The 199/232 would be a relatively simple bolt-in job. |
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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