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1963 Ambassador 327 auto transmission question |
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59bomb
AMC Fan Joined: Oct/08/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: Oct/08/2014 at 3:32pm |
Hi everyone, new to the forum, been lurking around for a while but finally decided to join. A little background: My Father, brother and I as a hobby, like to find old, forgotten cars that haven't been on the road for years, buy them and get them back on the road so they can be enjoyed by either us or their next owner. Its a fun rewarding hobby. Now onto the issue:
We came across a 1963 Rambler Ambassador 990 that hasnt been on the road in many years. All flat tires, filthy but surprisingly low/no rust and pretty complete. We couldn't watch it sit there anymore so we finally made an offer and were able to get the car. Its a 327 2bbl, power steering, power brake, air conditioning car. Its an automatic ON THE COLUMN. We contacted the original owner(2 before us) and long story short, he said he rebuilt the transmission but put the wrong valve body back in and never bothered to put the correct one back in. So he says that it will run, but putting it through the gears will do absolutely nothing(havent yet checked this for sure, but the previous owner had taken the drive shaft out to tow it home and never put it back in) We are going to drop the transmission pan, but the problem is that we have no way of validating if it is the incorrect/correct valve body. My understanding from looking around this forum is that these transmissions, the flash-o-matic, were Borg Warner 3 speeds, BUT the internal components of the automatics on these cars differed from the column shift and the floor shift models, so 2 different valve bodies? The wealth of information has stopped here, as I couldnt find anymore information onloine or in the 63 service manual. So really: -How can I validate the if this is the correct/incorrect valve body? -If it happens to be correct, how can I know if the valves/springs/balls etc are in the correct locations? -If I needed to locate the correct valve body/plate/etc - is that something that can be done? Because I don't see a whole lot of parts for these cars Anyway, thanks for reading if you made it this far! We really appreciate all the help and really just want to see this unique car back on the road being enjoyed. |
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59bomb
AMC Fan Joined: Oct/08/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Here is a picture of her. Frotsy White on the bottom, and palisades green on the top,
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Column shift models were called "Flash-O-Matic", floor shift models were called "Shift Command". If the valve body bolts up and the trans works I wouldn't worry about it. The FOM shifts different that what you're used to. The first Drive position (shifter should have a D with a 2 between D and N, a 1 between D and L) the trans starts in second gear. A lot of people think they have a two speed trans. Pull it down to D1 and it will start in first gear. The reasoning for the second gear start was that it is better for slippery surfaces such as snow and ice -- less spinning. The SC trans works exactly like most modern trannys -- P R N D 2 1. It can be easily manually shifted through the three forward gear.
I think the PO may not know how the trans was supposed to shift. The VB may have been changed from another trans, but if it fits and works it's the "right" VB. Other models won't interchange, has to be a similar model trans. The M-3x (35, 37) and M-4x (40, 42, 43, 44) may interchange, and the M-11 and M-12 models may interchange, but IIRC the M-3/4x and M-11/12 won't interchange, and I know for sure that the older M-8 and M-10 used a noticeably different VB than the newer M-3/4x and M-1x models. |
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Frank Swygert
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59bomb
AMC Fan Joined: Oct/08/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Hey Farna, thanks for the response. You shed a lot of light on my situation and a lot of information I couldn't seem to find. Sorry for the delayed response, been super busy and also have been working to get the motor up and running. The problem we have is that the original owner tells us that with the motor running, it won't shift into D1, D2, N, P or R. So basically nothing happens as you move the shift lever. We haven't tried to validate this yet. The trans is totally dry now(bad pan leak), so should we drop the pan and inspect the valve body? Or fill the trans up and look for other reasons it won't go into gear? Opinions welcomed.
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rocklandrambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/09/2013 Location: Nanuet, NY Status: Offline Points: 3953 |
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This may sound stupid but have you verified that the shift linkage is even STILL HOOKED UP? Or has loosened to the point of no longer moving the throttle lever down on the tranny.
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Past AMC's
1974 Hornet X (new) 1975 Gremlin X (new) 1964 Classic 660 Cross Country 1965 American 440-H |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Well, you have to drop the pan to fix the leak. If you have a repair manual available go ahead and drop the VB and clean it. There are 3-4 tubes that go across the valve body that may not be installed correctly or came out. Even if you don't drop the VB inspect everything you can see. You really need a TSM at this point. Even if you put something else in the car (a different engine and trans) the TSM will come in handy for everything else.
After that fill it up and try it. Could be that the VB is the whole problem. I had one that the VB either had a passage blocked or worn through. Wouldn't clean -- had to replace it. There's a lot you can do without removing the trans that will help once it is confirmed to even work at all. |
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Frank Swygert
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