1963 196 not running right

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   valves a bit loose is fine. a rough way to go about it for initial work is rotate the engine so the valve is closed; that pushrod ought to turn by hand; not loose enough to rattle out, just a tiny bit of play. you can do it all in a couple turns of the motor. once running adjust 'em. tight is bad.

but no compression #1 is bad news. 

headgaskets rarely survive disassembly anyway. they're steel sandwiches. they're getting hard to find too. Best brand is i think the only choice today, maybe NOS. 

the 57 head will fit. i think there are changes around the trough area, but nothing that will prevent you from using it. different years -- not sure what the pattern is, if any -- have big screw-in plugs, some dont, some have one or multiple holes for vacuum pickoff.

those heads crack easy! there's an engineering issue, plus no one torqued heads right in the old so-called good days, headgaskets leaked, lost coolant, topped off with water, overheated, blah blah CRACK.

get the head off, anything could under in there!

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tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 10:59pm
	valves a bit loose is fine. a rough way to go about it for initial work is rotate the engine so the valve is closed; that pushrod ought to turn by hand; not loose enough to rattle out, just a tiny bit of play. you can do it all in a couple turns of the motor. once running adjust 'em. tight is bad. but no compression #1 is bad news. headgaskets rarely survive disassembly anyway. they're steel sandwiches. they're getting hard to find too. Best brand is i think the only choice today, maybe NOS. the 57 head will fit. i think there are changes around the trough area, but nothing that will prevent you from using it. different years -- not sure what the pattern is, if any -- have big screw-in plugs, some dont, some have one or multiple holes for vacuum pickoff. those heads crack easy! there's an engineering issue, plus no one torqued heads right in the old so-called good days, headgaskets leaked, lost coolant, topped off with water, overheated, blah blah CRACK. get the head off, anything could under in there!
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

Lexstang Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Apr/29/2014 Location: Lexington ky Status: Offline Points: 104	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lexstang Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/31/2019 at 11:41am
	good luck finding a good cylinder head. I need one too I think. I had exhuast valve seat drop because of a crack. Had head repaired but I think crack must go to water jacket because I still get water in oil with multiple gasket changes and checks.

al1630 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/05/2017 Location: Boise, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote al1630 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/31/2019 at 2:17pm
	I got the head off, cylinder #1 looks similar to the others, but I'll probably get it to a machine shop sometime in the next couple weeks to have it checked for cracks or warping. Cylinder #1
	Alex 1963 Rambler American 440H

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 5:59am
	All looks good... not sure if that's a good thing since no compression in #1!! Cracks won't loose that much compression, so that's not the issue. The intake valve is that large one -- it looks like it could be not seating, hard to tell from photos. If you're getting it rebuilt the shop will take the valves out and regrind the seats, so that will solve any issues there. If it had been running with a valve not closing it will need grinding anyway, as the seats get burned. The head may not have been sealing good around #1 though. A warped head can be ground level easy enough, let's just hope it's not cracked!! Small cracks that aren't leaking oil into water or (more likely) water into oil really won't hurt if it's just a weekend/fair weather/show driver. I've run one many years that way, just lost a very small amount of water along. I was driving that car daily (short 5 mile commute each way) for several years and lost a quart of water every 6-8 weeks, thought it was a small leak I couldn't find (because it was INSIDE!!) and didn't worry about it -- was in the desert at the time (Mtn Home AFB, ID). Cracks finally opened up when driving cross country pulling a utility trailer after two days of 12-13 hours on the road (14-16 hour days!). half way across country with a wife, dog, and 4 year old isn't a good time for a major break-down!! Rented a u-haul truck and dolly to get to my destination.
	Frank Swygert

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 10:57pm
	i dunno frank... look at the color of the headgasket area on the block. THAT looks like rust, and rust there on that engine would almost certainly be coolant (water). it would have to be really bad to create zero compression. i agree it looks like it wasn't sealed well. maybe close-up photos would be enough to diagnose from? i agree though that the chambers are all the same (good) though crapped up, nothing out of ordinary, for a high mileage motor. burning some oil probably, kinda cakey.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/02/2019 at 6:57am
	That's why I mentioned that "the head might not be sealing good around #1". Don't know if it's rust or old sealer/gasket. I wouldn't think it could be warped enough to create zero compression and no sealing around a cylinder though. Almost has to be a valve not sealing, IMO. Nothing else could cause ZERO compression that I know of, unless there was a big hole in the piston or no rings at all. Surely rings couldn't be stuck enough to cause NO compression?? Low, yes, but none???
	Frank Swygert

al1630 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/05/2017 Location: Boise, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote al1630 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/04/2019 at 6:41pm
	I got the head checked out by a machine shop, they found 3 cracks in it, they're repairable but would cost around what I paid for the car to get fixed, so my plan right now is to go look at the head on Craigslist. anything I can quickly check for that would obviously tell me if it's got problems? thanks
	Alex 1963 Rambler American 440H

pacerman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9061	Post Options Post Reply Quote pacerman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/04/2019 at 9:08pm
	To have a no risk situation, you would need to know that the head had been cleaned and passed a crack test (magnafluxing) before you buy it. If you can come up with a way to pay for that or pay your share in the cost of that and still have the seller agree to sell it to you for an agreed upon price you would be minimizing your risk. Otherwise you would have to risk the total cost or have the seller agreed to take it back if you have it checked and it fails after you receive it. Maybe that is all too obvious but I thought I would point it out. Keep your eyes peeled on craigslist for an entire 195.6 engine too. I have known of a couple that have been sold in the last year or so for a reasonable price. Joe
	Happiness is making something out of nothing.

al1630 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/05/2017 Location: Boise, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote al1630 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/04/2019 at 9:43pm
	Ok, thanks. Rambler stuff in general seems to be pretty rare around here, but I'll keep a lookout for more engine parts.
	Alex 1963 Rambler American 440H

al1630 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/05/2017 Location: Boise, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote al1630 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/06/2019 at 3:30pm
	I was cleaning off the block today to prep it for a new head gasket, and I found this: That's #1. Looks like the piston ring broke. That could certainly explain a lot. Edited by al1630 - Apr/06/2019 at 3:35pm
	Alex 1963 Rambler American 440H