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196 tune up

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pacerman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/17/2012 at 4:11pm
Yes, paper gasket.   Pretty easy to make if you don't have one handy.  Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DocCreer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/17/2012 at 4:21pm
are they still avalible?

69 440 sedan (totalled,junked)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/17/2012 at 5:03pm
The water pump gasket should be available. You should be able to use RTV to seal it without a gasket. Don't put a lot of RTV on -- just enough to seal. A thick layer will be more likely to leak, not less.
 
The factory oil filter is a screw-on similar to any other, except it's upside down on the driver's side front corner. If that isn't what you have it is likely a cartridge style aftermarket filter. Need a pic!
 
You said this is a 196 OHV, right? Now that you have it running, STOP!! Torque the head bolts before you run it. If that hasn't been done in years you will probably blow the head gasket within 50 miles (or less), and could run it hot and warp the head in the process. You also need to adjust the valves. If I misread and this is an L-head you don't have to worry about the head bolts, but the valves should be adjusted. Hard to get to the ones near the suspension, but it's not terribly difficult. OHV is relatively easy, L-head is a pain!
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrispycub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 9:51pm
What does a rebuild on that engine cost (approximately)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Chrispycub Chrispycub wrote:

What does a rebuild on that engine cost (approximately)?

Parts are one of the challenges on rebuilding the 196 OHV. Pistons are a bit hard to come by, as are cam bearings, oil pumps, timing set, valves. They are available, but you might have to scrounge them up! I believe there is an ebay store/seller that offers all the parts needed for an overhaul, and it's around $1000. These engines have somewhat fragile cylinder heads, so there's a good chance of a crack in an exhaust valve seat; and a good chance the head will need milling.
Add machine shop work to the mix, and assembly...you'll have a fair amount of money in the engine. BUT, don't let that discourage you! If you're looking for the parts, ask here on the Forum! I could supply quite a few of the parts necessary for a rebuild.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 59ramblersuper6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 10:23pm
Well that depends on what specific engine work needs to be done, but your typical rebuild including boring, honing, crack and surface checking and prep would be about $600-800 where I live. Then you'd need all new parts engine overhaul kit $800-1100 dollars and then assembly would be about $500 i'd guess. So around 2k to $2500 assuming the head, block, crank, piston rods and oiling system are in good shape.      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 59ramblersuper6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/05/2012 at 10:30pm
Kanter sells complete kits and engine parts. Kits are $900 basic and 1040.00 for a master. There's no shortage of engine parts for the 196, but they are rather pricey when compared to the more popular AMC motors.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 9:49am
You mentioned estimates of $3000-$3500 in another thread. That's about right is the shop is pulling the engine and putting it back in. The remove/replace is $600-$1000 alone, so that estimate is about right.

Have the head checked for cracks before you do anything else. The 195.6 is a fine engine, but if the head is cracked you may want to consider swapping it for a later model 199 or 232. A 64-71 model will bolt to your transmission with no problems. There is a minor modification or two to the chassis, but it 's all bolt-in and relatively easy. I only suggest this for a cruiser/fun car as the parts for the later models will be much easier to find and cheaper, and you'll have a small boost in power even with the 199. The 232 is the most common and what I'd look for, but I wouldn't pass on a good 199. The 63-64 Classic/Ambo were designed to carry the 232 even though the engine wasn't introduced until late 1964.  The installation can look factory correct.

If your plans are to keep the car as original as possible, a genuine restoration, then you need to keep the 195.6. You may go through several used heads before finding one that isn't cracked. Doesn't matter what year or model the head comes from though (56-65 Nash/Hudson Rambler, Rambler Six, Rambler Classic, or Rambler American). If buying a used one get a written guarantee that it's not cracked or get a really good deal on it. A cracked head is worth about $10 in scrap iron, so how much do you want to gamble? I'd even pay the $25 or so to have the head checked by a local shop if the buyer will take it and have it done, and get a receipt from the shop saying it's good.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 9:07pm
I recently (2010) thoroughly rebuilt and went over this engine in detail, most of it documented here: http://wps.com/AMC/195.6OHV/index.html.

What Farna (and others) say is all correct. It's a fine, old, venerable motor. The head sealing/torque thing is a MAINTENANCE issue, and when your engine was "just an old used car" that maintenance probably stopped, and it suffered.

While others here remain dubious whether or not my head-cooling fix is real, I strongly suggest that you one way or another add a "leak" to the thermostat to allow a small amount of water to flow during warmup, AND torque on schedule. You can check back annually to see the results of my work, fine by me. A 5mm hole (3/16" or so), much larger than is usually done to allow air to purge. Put the hole towards the radiator.

ABSOLUTELY definitely have the head magnafluxed for cracks! On a good-running 232 just in for a "freshen", you could probably be a cheapskate and skip that to save a few bucks, but on this engine, the chances of a crack are sadly high enough to not be worth the gamble, as Farna and others say. I collected a bunch of heads for my project and 1/3rd of them were cracked -- one had been repaired.

If you are not in a hurry, I've found parts for cheap on eBay. One thing to watch out for is connecting rods -- unless you find your engine is "0 over" -- eg no overbore, have the rod WEIGHT checked -- there are rods with completely different masses with IDENTICAL casting numbers. Absolutely indistinguishable, and it's a LOT OF WEIGHT. Very odd, but there you go.

I built mine completely without gaskets (except headgasket) using Right Stuff. Cork is no good. Doesn't last. My engine is leak free, easy to assemble.

By now everyone's told you to find a shop willing to spend the time to do the job right and not get "its just an old car" sloppy work done!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 59ramblersuper6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2012 at 11:18pm
Chrispyscub:You may want to have someone qualified look over the engine before doing a rebuild.
Many are quick to jump to a full rebuild just because the engine is 45 years old at this point. Determine whats wrong with it first and what kind of shape it's in before deciding on a rebuild. There are ways to determine if it needs a head, rings, or valves or if it's just tired and a full rebuild is the best approach.
It may not need to be totally rebuilt. It might cost a few bucks but worth it to know your going in the best direction for your budget. 
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