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196 crank differences

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r4238id View Drop Down
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    Posted: May/05/2018 at 8:34pm

I have a 61 American flathead w/ automatic and a 196 OHV that originated in a 61 Classic with manual transmission. My intention is to continue driving the car while I rebuild the OHV and then make the swap. I am looking for clarification on the crank differences that I may run into. If I have understood some past discussions correctly 62 and earlier auto cranks were the Volcano type and manual were the flat crank. I would expect the American to have a volcano when pulled and the OHV out of the Classic with manual to be flat but as I look at the crank on the OHV it appears to be the "volcano" type. I have attempted to put the picture from the OHV in this post for reference. 


 

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/08/2018 at 6:12am
It's a "volcano" type. Apparently the flat ones weren't across the board until 63. I'm pretty sure the 61 American I had with flat head and manual trans had a flat crank, but that was too many years ago for me to be certain. The cranks will interchange, just need to match the trans/flywheel to the right one. Of course that would mean you couldn't rebuild the crank without having both motors out. Could still bore the block and rebuild the head, just turn crank and install it as the final step. That would save a good bit of time...
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/08/2018 at 9:31pm
unless someone comes up with a bellhousing that has an unusual depth, or a T96 with an input shaft much longer than the 7.125, all manual 195.6's have volcano butt cranks. it simply, literally, doesn't otherwise stack up.

if you can make some measurements, i'd love to have them: bellhousing depth, meaning from flat where the trans bolts on to the big surface where it bolts to the motor...

here is my rather involved but disorganized notes on this very subject:

http://sr-ix.com/Roadster/transmission/index.html

and what i'm driving now (T5, not directly applicable to you)

http://sr-ix.com/Roadster/transmission/T5research/index.html

(repaired URLs, 25 jan 2019)



Edited by tomj - Jan/25/2019 at 9:09pm
1961 roadster american
195.6 OHV, modded
T5z, 3.42:1 mustang axle
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r4238id View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote r4238id Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/25/2019 at 12:48am
I had some health problems that stalled me on my project but picking this back up and just got the OHV out of the machine shop.

TomJ - 
I had referenced your links last year and would like to review them again however they appear to no longer be valid. Do you have this info posted in another location?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/25/2019 at 9:11pm
oops, rats... i had to do some serious updates on my website(s) (they go back to 1994) and intended to preserve URLs, but apparently i broke them.

i edited the URLs in the post above; but in general, go to sr-ix.com, click "roadster", evertthing below there should be int he same order.


sorry about that!

1961 roadster american
195.6 OHV, modded
T5z, 3.42:1 mustang axle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote r4238id Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/11/2019 at 1:54pm
Thanks for updating the links!

I removed the engine from the vehicle and sure enough it is a flat crank. I would prefer to keep the removed engine intact and use the crank that came with the OHV.  I have seen it stated several times in the forum that you can grind off the volcano and the cranks will interchange - are there any other differences? The depth of the hole to receive the pilot bushing may also be a bit short once the volcano is removed and would have to be addressed. There is a slight recess on the flat crank - is there a purpose for that area? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2019 at 5:52am
Several people have machined the "volcano" off and run them. No one has mentioned the depth of the pilot hole, maybe they were using auto trannys, but that is something to check when having it machined off. Would be easy to correct while it's in a lathe. The recess isn't for anything specific IIRC. I know for sure the flexplate used on the 196 is flat, and the flywheel has a recess that fits over the hub, IIRC. I think that's just machining marks where the "volcano" is turned off from the factory. These are FORGED cranks -- would be easier to turn it off than to change the forging dies.
Frank Swygert
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