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195.6 ohv performance engine build |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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Tom
Taking into account knowledge accumulated of other engines of the same era, one of which the V12 used by the Lincoln Zephyr which was closely related to the Ford V8 rather than the V12's of the senior Lincolns had 3 main bearings and was known to run with 1/2 inch bends in it. Truth is stranger than fiction. Also as a point of interest, it looks like Valerie's lung transplant success is going to end some time between now and the end of the week. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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OK, got the engine back today! just dangling from a chain today, tomorrow i test-fit the bell and T5.
more details later, but here's a quick update: builder was Pete Fleming, in the san fernando valley here in LA area. he said this was about as far as you can push this motor as it is. the cam is sadly close to stock, limited by the very small amount of metal to regrind. my tappets were deeply pitted, and was a puzzly why. the cam lobes were worn, but OK. unsure if it's related, but seems likely: the cam was one of Galvin's "RV grind"s, with new valve springs from kanter i think. there was spring bind with the "stock" springs, and the previous cam! when i built this thing back in 2010 i did not check for that. i "assumed" that since stock, it was OK. the lesson is, stuff this old, with so many substitutions, so much change, so little options, you gotta check everything, even the obvious. i am guessing that as the springs approached binding, the pressure skyrocketed and the pressure ruined the already marginal cam::tappet force. also i ran synth oil, a mistake in this engine. a lot of work went into larger diameter springs that don't bind. the TSM says 65 lbs force, closed, the stock springs, so-called, 7 yrs old but new then, was 40. new springs are 80, the cam guy says that's about max. Ariel pistons, custom forged, with steel -- not cast iron -- rings. very high end rings, very modern ring stack and piston tech. rings are closer together and higher up the piston. i think with the Ariel number to you re-order and get ther same pistons, and take advantage of the engineering work that was done to have 'em made. compression should be 9:1. crank had an ancient .004" bend, in the middle, straightened. dynamically balanced. weight added. block deck milled. the SOBs i had do the 2010 work, where i carefully put in writing i wanted extra attention, i'd pay for, to get a flat deck, was just belt sanded and had ripples. it is now FLAT. FLAT. ARP studs. my previous cooling system, the electric coolant pump i'd written all the software for, is going back in. i nailed that, head temp regulation to 1 degree. to that i've added head/block circulation pump, separate from engine/radiator circulation, plus a fan-cooled oil cooler. the bottom end of this engine, originally 75 hp in 1946, now closer to 200, the oil gets stupid hot. that plus the bent crank (and probably badly set clearances) is what lunched the conn and crank bearings (all melted!). found a NEW oil pump. i'm blueprinting that, hand polished gear ends, setting clearance to .007 or so. plus the full-flow mod (required for the cooler). |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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I figured about 175 hp in my old 196, with a bump in compression to 9:1 (about what you will have with the trued up block and head, I think... and as I glance back up you noted that!), reground cam with 10* more duration and 0.10" more lift, and that's about it as far as "hard" work. Had 2" exhaust and turbo muffler, opened up air filter to 4" (pushed oval). You've done those also, but 200 might be closer than 175.
The cam made no changes at low rpm, but woke the motor up higher. All I can remember is if you dropped below about 45 mph it drove like a stock 196, but keep it at 45+ and it was noticeably spunkier. I improved the handling of the car and just didn't let it go under 45... even on twisty country roads (when I could safely do it, of course... but going around a 35 marked curve at 45 was a breeze... and fun!). I think Galvin was trying to get better low end performance with his grind. I figured there's just not much you can do to make a long stroke small bore engine turn up faster. Lunati ground my crank, I just told them I wanted it a little peppier, especially when cruising. Worked! Oh, I just kept the stock valve springs, didn't check them. |
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Frank Swygert
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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Tom, we need the part number for those pistons and where the builder sourced the rings. How much is your block bored? What weight of oil were you running? Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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There is a certain amount of satisfaction derived from taken a dated in line engine and breathing on it a bit to make it run as if it was something that was sporting in the first place. The Britts had a name for that, it was called a cooking version.
I've built 4 I6 engines and they have all run like a small V8 with some serious performance delivered. They end up being a lot of fun. Once built and a carburetor big enough to not restrict the performance they run well. As to oil? I use the viscosity vs ambient temperature charts to select what is compatible with where I live. In Phoenix AZ 20W50 is appropriate and thus used, but a 10W30 or 40 would work anywhere USA through a season of driving free of snow. As to Synthetics? I don't see a problem with them personally. They were initially fabricated to be used in air plane piston engines that flew at 30,000 feet plus with out failure modes and today's versions are even better. I have not had a problem with them yet. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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tungsten
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/09/2017 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Do you guys run zinc additives in your oil to improve wear patterns? Most of the off-the-shelf high-zinc stuff I'm aware of is pure synthetic.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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yeah, we're awfully close! mainly i think because there's so little wiggle room. my cam specs: lift at valve: .383 duration @050": 212 degrees separation: 110 deg exhaust valve is larger, not for any performance reasons but because all the seats had to be opened to fix the mess the previous shop did.
i don't blame the spring thing (or anything else) on Galvin. the cam worked great. i don't understand the spring problem -- i checked the ones that came out against another set i had, same static height (within an eightth, all are used), same keepers, no idea why there was binding. but the binding helps explain the tappets, maybe. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Arias Pistons job 471705 bore 3.185 compression height 1.734 i'll ask about the rings. it was 040 over when i dropped it off. (still have those pistons, though now used, almost no scuffing, i will clean them up and probably eBay them). the rings were 80 or 81 mm, some high end Honda rings. pistons were made to fit those since they were 0.000 4" of desired. they weren't cheap, $700 for the pistons and no idea what the rings cost. i've only built engines with stock-replacement pistons. i don't think i will do that ever again. these are just too damn nice. look at this pics, vs. N.O.S. 60s or 70s Silvolites. ugh. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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i'm gonna run the Weber 32/36 for now. needs rejetting, and this time i installed a wideband AFR meter and tune it right. but will probably do something larger later this summer. and this summer im going to make my own headers. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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the builder recommends a quality mineral oil like Castrol 20w50 and a ZDDP additive. that's my plan. Joe Gibbs Breakin oil for initial start. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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