TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 195.6 ohv performance engine build
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

195.6 ohv performance engine build

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 13>
Author
Message
uncljohn View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/03/2013
Location: Peoria AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 5394
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/26/2017 at 9:54pm
Tom, I've always kinda wanted an overdrive. Even to the point where I have a BorgWarner technical manual on the things but the way it looks now I probably will never see one much less own one. Oh Well, I have had lots of toys.
I think I need to fabricate a reason to get to LA to stop by before I get to old to do it.
Watching the progress with baited breath.
Cheers
John
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
Back to Top
amcenthusiast View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/02/2012
Location: SW Atlanta GA
Status: Offline
Points: 1778
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/26/2017 at 10:07pm
thanks TJ for posting "The New American Motors V8', Rambler V8 TSM

and thanks for posting all your other AMC/Rambler Navarro pages...


Edited by amcenthusiast - Jan/26/2017 at 10:47pm
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: earth
Status: Offline
Points: 7522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2017 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by uncljohn uncljohn wrote:

Tom, I've always kinda wanted an overdrive

well then it's all yours. i have this one still attached to the t96, and another in parts, maybe more. i too thought if trying to wangle it into another trans. its *so close* to bolting onto a T14... and an R10 from another trans, not T96, might have an input that fits the T14 transfer box spline...

anyway its yours. i am making some substantial changes in my life this year, soon i hope, and if the timing is right (june-ish) i could drive it out to phoenix (just in time for the "warm" weather). or obviously you could come-get.
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

Back to Top
jcisworthy View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/23/2009
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2017 at 5:36pm
"on bearing clearancing: since there's not a wide range of .001" over/under bearing sets available (surprise) the crank will get ground, installed, measured, and re-ground if necessary. Pete's got some solid machinist who can reliably take .001" off all journals. all i have to do is, umm, pay for it."

When the block and rods are done install .010 under or what ever bearings it will take to clean up the crank and measure the id of the rod and main journals. 

Tell the crank grinder what to turn the journals to for the clearance you want. You should not have to do it more than once that way. 
Specializing in dyno services, engine building, and cylinder head porting

rbjracing.com
Phone Number 518-915-3203
Back to Top
uncljohn View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/03/2013
Location: Peoria AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 5394
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2017 at 5:41am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:


Originally posted by uncljohn uncljohn wrote:

Tom, I've always kinda wanted an overdrive


well then it's all yours. i have this one still attached to the t96, and another in parts, maybe more. i too thought if trying to wangle it into another trans. its *so close* to bolting onto a T14... and an R10 from another trans, not T96, might have an input that fits the T14 transfer box spline...

anyway its yours. i am making some substantial changes in my life this year, soon i hope, and if the timing is right (june-ish) i could drive it out to phoenix (just in time for the "warm" weather). or obviously you could come-get.


DEAL!

I have always read (it seems anyway) that you can get it to bolt on to the back of the 4 speed used from 1966 to 1974. (T10) I no longer have one as I lunched it before I left SanJose and installed the T5
But
I'll have to work out visitation!
-unrelated- while looking up the T-10 in my TSM there was a flyer giving fuel prices through out the lower 49 states and it was interesting to see premium at 40 cents a gallon +/- something.
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
Back to Top
amcenthusiast View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/02/2012
Location: SW Atlanta GA
Status: Offline
Points: 1778
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2017 at 8:27am
Hey TJ: Based on your previous build pics of the 196.6 crank gallery...

http://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/

the forged steel crank appears to be arguably overbuilt

-not advice but it seems like maybe the crank could be lightened, with no 'real' loss of durability?

(but there would be an unknown 'harmonics' factor, whereas the stock 'heavy' crank will have more dampening & stiffness)

if the crank was lightened, there'd be more concern for precision balancing, to ward off unknown harmonic resonance (can't go wrong with precision balancing on any engine no matter what the application)

Since (all?) AMC inline six crankshafts are internally balanced 

(but they may still have 'correction cuts' on the harmonic dampers to 'finish balance' the assembly... whereas a non-internal balance crank does not have enough internal weight on the counterbalances & must be externally balanced with external counterbalance weights -there is a difference!)

I thought it might be interesting for you to double check your crank by testing it's internal balance on a set of parallel bars ...this exercise is commonly done with motorcycle cranks, but it's not well known in mainstream automotive articles ...which is kinda sad actually; technical fallacies by apparent misinformation is a form of lying... (lying by ignorance)

-don't mean to distract but you can see my inexpensive parallel bar set up I made to help balance 443 XRV8's crank at:

https://plus.google.com/106358430530058382730/posts/2KEqTS6XcgS

(basically it's just four jackstands, with angle iron sections welded on to hold the two parallel bars)

...it's an exercise of patience, where even one gram is detectable, but more importantly to know if several grams could be removed or added 'here and there' in order to exceed the high speed factory production methods/tolerances for any higher performance application... IMO 

...using parallel bars to test internal balanced crankshaft definitely shows that, depending on the cuts, even having a crank turned to the next undersize does indeed change the balance of the crankshaft by removing weight ...like two kids on a see-saw, an one drops off his knapsack and becomes lighter...
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: earth
Status: Offline
Points: 7522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/31/2017 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by uncljohn uncljohn wrote:

I have always read (it seems anyway) that you can get it to bolt on to the back of the 4 speed used from 1966 to 1974. (T10)

the "trick" is twofold: one, the transmission output shaft length is "zero", eg. a stub that sticks out just enough to fit into the OD. google up some Jeep T14's. the output shaft sticks out about 2" to fit into the transfer case. the OD attaches the same way, more or less. two, there's holes in the case for the shared oil system. that's not a big deal, relative to the shaft.

oops, more. reverse lockout, but you could ignore that. OD reverse would freewheel, at best.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: earth
Status: Offline
Points: 7522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/31/2017 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

the forged steel crank appears to be arguably overbuilt

that's a subtle way of putting it, lol. the crank is not the weak spot in this motor! (that would be head sealing, first, then cam availability, oil/block cooling, intake flow, ...)

Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

I thought it might be interesting for you to double check your crank by testing it's internal balance on a set of parallel bars ...this exercise is commonly done with motorcycle cranks, but it's not well known in mainstream automotive articles ...which is kinda sad actually; technical fallacies by apparent misinformation is a form of lying... (lying by ignorance)

-don't mean to distract but you can see my inexpensive parallel bar set up I made to help balance 443 XRV8's crank at:

https://plus.google.com/106358430530058382730/posts/2KEqTS6XcgS


WOW! that's pretty amazing. i thought i had patience, but that's beats mine. my whole engine is at this pro builder's shop. maybe it was a copout, i dunno. i think at this point i could build an OK engine, not anything like current levels of power etc, but reliable. but with the 195.6's, the cores start out so crapped up and worn out, unsquare, etc. i've NEVER seen one built with care, at best, they get a low-end rebuild and on their way.

i'm uphappy with how long it's taking, but he's been very thorough, has block bore/hone stuff in shop, and takes the time to do things right. he's cleaning up the crank, (it started out already 20/30 under), dynamic balancing it. checking oil drilling, chamfering all the holes. block is now square and flat. he's fitting a new valve seal system, he's known for great head seat and flow work, has ideas on improving the soda straws i mean pushrods (flexy), he says yes, even at these low linear speeds and weak-ish springs.

so i'm gambling on all this, i guess. if it were a 232/258 i'd have it done piecemeal myself, as before. but i'm collecting knowledge from pete on this motor, so i'll know how reasonably repeatable this is in the future, and how confident it might be. 


that's really beautiful work you did on that crank! 

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/01/2017 at 6:25am
The BW OD won't bolt onto the 66-74 T-10 four speed. I mean, it might, since it did come on the T-89 three speed from which the T-10 was derived, but you'd have no reverse. Reverse on the T-10 is in the output shaft housing, which the OD unit replaces.

There were some divorced OD units made though. They were few and far between, and it may be an aftermarket kit to make them that way, not a BW factory option. I've heard of them, never actually saw one. Wouldn't be terribly hard -- you'd need a front cover with a bearing and input shaft.  Well, wouldn't be hard for a machinist anyway. Convert a trans output shaft for the OD to an input... then make a slip connector for the trans to OD connection. Mounting the OD unit would take some inventiveness too, since most just hung off the back of the trans, no mount on it. That's pretty much what Gear Vendors did when they got started -- converted some of the Laycock-DeNormanville OD units they bought from AMC (when they dropped that option) to divorced units, and made adapters for some other transmissions. I think you can still get a divorced unit from them.
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: earth
Status: Offline
Points: 7522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2017 at 12:45pm
the latest news (last week) is that the crank has a .004" bend, end to end. gonna check for cracks and try to straighten it, then the machine work. engine ran smooth, but hey what do i have to compare it to? 
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 13>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or