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195.6 OHV No Oil Pressure

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pacerman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 195.6 OHV No Oil Pressure
    Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 5:23pm
I guess when you work on these old beasts you eventually run into each of the common things that can go wrong.  Or maybe it's just bad karma.   I replaced the crankshaft and main bearings in my 64 Classic (Moby).  I have a thread about Moby on the project cars topic but I will post this here.

The engine a 195.6 OHv original to the car,  is now reassembled and back in the car.  I did not tamper with the oil pump or bypass valve and the engine had good oil pressure before I removed the pan and crankshaft to correct a bad rear main seal leak.  Found that the rear main bearing especially was deeply scored and replaced the crankshaft and bearings because the rear main journal could not be cleaned up at .040 undersize (which was the biggest bearings I could find).  So I replaced the crankshaft with a .020 undersize crank I had here at home and of course new proper sized bearings. 

The engine is assembled and back in the car.  I packed the oil pump with petroleum jelly and tried to pre-oil the engine with the spark plugs out, fresh 10w40 in the pan and using the starter to rotate.  Zero oil pressure, as checked by a new gauge.  Bummer.  Repacked the oil pump.  Spun the engine and still no joy.  

I have a bare block here at home and looked for the places where I may have left something unplugged or left an obvious internal oil leak.  I am thinking maybe something under the timing chain cover, especially the oil gallery plug on the front of the engine.  I thought I inspected everything but now I am forced to check.  I know I snugged up the oil pick-up tube correctly and it was clean of any debris.  I have been there before.  I pulled pressure line feeding the oil filter and when I spin the engine, there is some oil flow out of that port but not enough, evidently to generate any pressure so maybe the pickup tube is contacting the bottom of the oil pan.  I mention that below.  

Color me frustrated.  Oh when I looked in the oil pump the second time to repack it, just a trace of the pj remained so the pump is turning and presumably pulling at least some oil out of the pan, but the pump itself did not drip a lot of oil when I opened it up.  

So two possibilities:  something under the timing chain cover is open, or the oil pickup tube is flat against the bottom of the pan.  My engine did not have a washer or spacer separating the pickup tube from the pan and I don't think I installed one. 

Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 5:37pm
It's been a few years since I've had one apart. No oil coming out of the line up to the filter?
  
Another of the few things i remember of that engine is the huge oil drain plug. Can you look in with a flashlight or something to see how your oil pick up screen looks for clearance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 6:21pm
Only a small amount of low pressure flow at the fitting to the oil filter line when cranking the engine.   I don't have an iphone or equivalent, just a flip phone.  i do have an Ipad and could get one of those cheap borescope cameras and look through the oil plug opening to check the pickup tube if I can't see it with my naked eye.  Or even get a cheap Harbor Fiight borescope. Thanks for the suggestion.  Joe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 6:27pm
Joe,
Is there any way to spin that oil pump with a dummy shaft and drill? I'm wondering if cranking speed is really getting it primed well or not?

Paul
BTW, NORS oil pump on ebay at a great price, if you have any need for one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 10:13pm
The engine has to turn to spin the pump on a 195.6.  Thanks for the tip on the auction.  I will check it out.   I have thought of using a pressure pot type pre-oiler to prime the engine but thinking about it is as far as I have gone.  Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 10:44pm
i'm sure you've packed it right, you know that engine. i never got oil pressure up via cranking. i pack well with vaseline, assembly lube on all the bearings etc, then start it up.

ramblinrev, the oil pump is driven directly from the camshaft, from the distrib gear, but not via the distributor. the oil pump is external, inserts very much like a distributor in fact.

joe, if you've got it packed i'd run it. yeah, it's crazy. one of the many things they fixed with the 199/232.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2019 at 11:28am
the Vaseline can have mixed results. Eh hem. It can clog orfices. That’s one possibility. I’m very green on the old old sixes. I will be tuning up on them soon... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2019 at 11:41am
Yep, I can picture the oil pump shaft now, so no way to use a dummy shaft like you can on the newer sixes of V8s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/01/2019 at 11:06pm
well vaseline's a lousy lubricant, but there's not much of it, and it has terribly viscosity index, so it dissolves in the hot oil. and for new-engine-breakin, the first oil, with all those break-in additives, isn't in there for long. 

it's also the method that the factory recommends, though that was the 1950s/60s.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramblage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/02/2019 at 12:49am
I remember on my 59 rambler with the 196, fresh built, wanted to prime it before start up. Packed the oil pump several times, it never built up pressure by cranking to where I just started the engine and it finally built pressure. Another thing you might try is finding a way to pump oil into the oil gallery through the plug that’s right above the oil pump. Maybe a hand pump or something to put oil in the system.

Edited by Ramblage - Apr/02/2019 at 12:51am
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