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195.6 OHV No Oil Pressure |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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Posted: Mar/30/2019 at 5:23pm |
I guess when you work on these old beasts you eventually run into each of the common things that can go wrong. Or maybe it's just bad karma. I replaced the crankshaft and main bearings in my 64 Classic (Moby). I have a thread about Moby on the project cars topic but I will post this here.
The engine a 195.6 OHv original to the car, is now reassembled and back in the car. I did not tamper with the oil pump or bypass valve and the engine had good oil pressure before I removed the pan and crankshaft to correct a bad rear main seal leak. Found that the rear main bearing especially was deeply scored and replaced the crankshaft and bearings because the rear main journal could not be cleaned up at .040 undersize (which was the biggest bearings I could find). So I replaced the crankshaft with a .020 undersize crank I had here at home and of course new proper sized bearings. The engine is assembled and back in the car. I packed the oil pump with petroleum jelly and tried to pre-oil the engine with the spark plugs out, fresh 10w40 in the pan and using the starter to rotate. Zero oil pressure, as checked by a new gauge. Bummer. Repacked the oil pump. Spun the engine and still no joy. I have a bare block here at home and looked for the places where I may have left something unplugged or left an obvious internal oil leak. I am thinking maybe something under the timing chain cover, especially the oil gallery plug on the front of the engine. I thought I inspected everything but now I am forced to check. I know I snugged up the oil pick-up tube correctly and it was clean of any debris. I have been there before. I pulled pressure line feeding the oil filter and when I spin the engine, there is some oil flow out of that port but not enough, evidently to generate any pressure so maybe the pickup tube is contacting the bottom of the oil pan. I mention that below. Color me frustrated. Oh when I looked in the oil pump the second time to repack it, just a trace of the pj remained so the pump is turning and presumably pulling at least some oil out of the pan, but the pump itself did not drip a lot of oil when I opened it up. So two possibilities: something under the timing chain cover is open, or the oil pickup tube is flat against the bottom of the pan. My engine did not have a washer or spacer separating the pickup tube from the pan and I don't think I installed one. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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It's been a few years since I've had one apart. No oil coming out of the line up to the filter?
Another of the few things i remember of that engine is the huge oil drain plug. Can you look in with a flashlight or something to see how your oil pick up screen looks for clearance?
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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Only a small amount of low pressure flow at the fitting to the oil filter line when cranking the engine. I don't have an iphone or equivalent, just a flip phone. i do have an Ipad and could get one of those cheap borescope cameras and look through the oil plug opening to check the pickup tube if I can't see it with my naked eye. Or even get a cheap Harbor Fiight borescope. Thanks for the suggestion. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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ramblinrev
Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11539 |
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Joe, Is there any way to spin that oil pump with a dummy shaft and drill? I'm wondering if cranking speed is really getting it primed well or not? Paul BTW, NORS oil pump on ebay at a great price, if you have any need for one!
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74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981) |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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The engine has to turn to spin the pump on a 195.6. Thanks for the tip on the auction. I will check it out. I have thought of using a pressure pot type pre-oiler to prime the engine but thinking about it is as far as I have gone. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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i'm sure you've packed it right, you know that engine. i never got oil pressure up via cranking. i pack well with vaseline, assembly lube on all the bearings etc, then start it up. ramblinrev, the oil pump is driven directly from the camshaft, from the distrib gear, but not via the distributor. the oil pump is external, inserts very much like a distributor in fact. joe, if you've got it packed i'd run it. yeah, it's crazy. one of the many things they fixed with the 199/232. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Jmerican
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/29/2016 Location: Seattle, Wa Status: Offline Points: 585 |
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the Vaseline can have mixed results. Eh hem. It can clog orfices. That’s one possibility. I’m very green on the old old sixes. I will be tuning up on them soon...
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ramblinrev
Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11539 |
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Yep, I can picture the oil pump shaft now, so no way to use a dummy shaft like you can on the newer sixes of V8s.
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74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981) |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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well vaseline's a lousy lubricant, but there's not much of it, and it has terribly viscosity index, so it dissolves in the hot oil. and for new-engine-breakin, the first oil, with all those break-in additives, isn't in there for long. it's also the method that the factory recommends, though that was the 1950s/60s. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Ramblage
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/29/2008 Location: Fresno, Ca Status: Offline Points: 706 |
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I remember on my 59 rambler with the 196, fresh built, wanted to prime it before start up. Packed the oil pump several times, it never built up pressure by cranking to where I just started the engine and it finally built pressure. Another thing you might try is finding a way to pump oil into the oil gallery through the plug that’s right above the oil pump. Maybe a hand pump or something to put oil in the system.
Edited by Ramblage - Apr/02/2019 at 12:51am |
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1960 Customized Land Barge Rambler Super with Dodge 360 & 5spd
1971 Silver Bullet Javelin w/232 Engyne! 1972 Crappy Green Javelin w/401 and AW4, still in the works |
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