195.6 build date

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   From searching this site, it looks like these engines started getting date codes in 1959. I noticed a post that said the valve covers got the louver on the front in 1962. My 1958 has this louver, so I’m wondering if the valve cover was changed or the whole engine. Can someone confirm this is at least a pre-date code engine? It’s a cast iron OHV 195.6. 
Under distributor: 3158551
Top of left side block: 20521

Thanks

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SuperWagon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/17/2012 Location: Chicago Suburbs Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote SuperWagon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 195.6 build date Posted: Jun/17/2019 at 3:04pm
	From searching this site, it looks like these engines started getting date codes in 1959. I noticed a post that said the valve covers got the louver on the front in 1962. My 1958 has this louver, so I’m wondering if the valve cover was changed or the whole engine. Can someone confirm this is at least a pre-date code engine? It’s a cast iron OHV 195.6. Under distributor: 3158551 Top of left side block: 20521 Thanks
	1958 Rambler Cross Country Super wagon. 196ci cast iron engine with 3 speed manual

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/19/2019 at 12:48am
	i wouldn't use bolt-on stuff to date that engine. even AMC swapped parts at the factory without documentation. never mind what happened in dealerships and repair shops and driveways in the intervening decades. i'll go dig out my copy of Farna's RED WHITE BLUE book. i think he's got date stuff for the old engine in there. but i think there's a clock face in the casting, the digit is the final year digit. also i have collected five 'junk' engines in the last few years; only one was NOT overbored and rebuilt. imagine that -- a 1960 "honda fit" run into the ground, rebuilt, then run into the ground again. AMC just made their cars run, especially in those earliest years, there is very little consistency and predictability. i have two sets of 195.6 OHV connecting rods, absolutely interchangeable, absolutely identical marking and part numbers, yet one set each rod weighs 100 grams more than the other set. when repairing, believe nothing, measure everything. NOTHING IS TRUE. ALL IS PERMITTED. -- HASSAN I SABBAH (NO! not from that !@#$R#@@@!!! video game)
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

pacerman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057	Post Options Post Reply Quote pacerman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/19/2019 at 11:31pm
	20521 equals May 21, 1960 and sometimes, especially after the die cast aluminum engine was produced, there would be a C (for cast iron) or a B for Die cast aluminum ahead of the digits . Joe
	Happiness is making something out of nothing.

SuperWagon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/17/2012 Location: Chicago Suburbs Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote SuperWagon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2019 at 6:15pm
	Thanks, really bummed since it was sold to me as all original. I have a line on a 1958 Rebel wagon with I’m assuming a 250 v8 and 3 speed. Was thinking about swapping them over to mine if it wasn’t original. Is the chart posted somewhere online? I couldn’t find it.
	1958 Rambler Cross Country Super wagon. 196ci cast iron engine with 3 speed manual

ramblinrev Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11535	Post Options Post Reply Quote ramblinrev Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2019 at 9:44pm
	I wouldn't worry about it not being original. The casting # is probably the same, and the question is how well does it run?
	74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977) 62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/21/2019 at 8:52pm
	3158551 is a 56-61 block casting number. 20521 is in the "engine day build code" area, and I believe pacerman is correct in interpreting it. There is usually a letter code between the third and fourth digits, but in 1960 they only had either the OHV or flathead six cylinder (AL six came out in 61), so probably omitted it due to not being necessary. Not sure if all 60s are like that or yours is a mistake. I haven't had any pre 61 engines or looked for the date code on any. As stated, the valve cover could have been changed over the years. If it bugs you try to find an original type. Most aren't that picky about these engines, and even AMC judges rarely know them in that kind of detail. I don't think I'd even notice it, or care if I did as long as it's mostly original looking. Could be a tie breaker between tow really detailed restored cars, but as I said, most wouldn't notice it.
	Frank Swygert

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/22/2019 at 12:25am
	"original" is a tough thing to decide, seriously. there's a "numbers matching" concept in some other brands but it flatly doesn't exist in the AMC world. also Americans were more or less ther "Honda Fit" of their time, not corvettes or low production cars. and pre-computer age. and a company that made 20,000 of a given model setup and that likely by hand. cars could be ordered custom, from the factory or by larger dealers, so mix'n'match on even showroom-floor cars is very common. it's been 60 years. even rarefied brands like Maserati have a hard time with some of this kinda stuff. with inexpensive passenger cars it's like trying to match numbers on old refrigerator parts.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

SuperWagon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/17/2012 Location: Chicago Suburbs Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote SuperWagon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/22/2019 at 7:54am
	You’re right, I don’t think it changes the value of the car. That valve cover post just got me wondering if my engine was original. It runs decent, but I think I was looking for a reason to do the v8 swap. Just don’t think it’s worth the cost. Lack of heads and whole engines in general makes me nervous if something happens the car it will be useless and valueless.
	1958 Rambler Cross Country Super wagon. 196ci cast iron engine with 3 speed manual

al1630 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/05/2017 Location: Boise, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote al1630 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/22/2019 at 9:45am
	Parts for these cars can be hard to find, but they're out there. Occasionally someone on craigslist or a similar site will be parting out a rambler with some good parts on it. That's how I got a head for my 196. You have to keep your eyes out for parts and some should turn up eventually.
	Alex 1963 Rambler American 440H

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/22/2019 at 3:28pm
	Even if you cheat and go to a later model AMC engine you won't hurt the value of the car much. It will be worth more to someone who actually wants to drive it, but a bit less for a collector. Not many AMC bread and butter car collectors now, but there are a few, and who knows what will happen as original examples dry up. The 250 V-8 conversion would be easy enough with a parts car.
	Frank Swygert