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Willys Tornado Flow Data

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SC397 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/28/2019 at 6:03pm
Hey Ken, if this is "sorta AMC" then the Titanic had a small leak.  LOL!
Regardless, as you well know, I am way into the Willys thing myself.  I wish I had the Tornado engine in my Aero vs the 90 wopping horsepower F-head that I do have.  Actually, I wish I even had a AMC258 for that matter..  The car has a 4.56 gear and needs it all!  All fun stuff nonetheless.
Among the AMC Muscle cars that I have I am also the proud owner of these Willys vehicles.
1948 Empire Tractor - Assembled in NY from WW2 Jeep drive train.
1958 M274 1/2 ton Platform Truck (Military Mule)  - Talk about a "cool" engine!  A Willys built 4 cyl air cooled unit.
1952 Willys Aero Wing - 90 HP F-head engine.
1953 Willys Pick Up - 4 cyl soon to be AMC 360 powered.
IMG_1435 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Edited by SC397 - Mar/28/2019 at 6:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/28/2019 at 6:56pm
Sure it's AMC! Willys became Kaiser became AMC - no question it's an AMC! But the tractor may be pushing it.

Willys looks good!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/28/2019 at 7:00pm

Here is a picture of the combustion chamber


Edited by Ken_Parkman - Mar/28/2019 at 7:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/28/2019 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

Overhead camshaft, and its a Hemi, and crossflow....which is what we take for granted today......and Kaiser used this in a Jeep truck with 5.38 gears.....LOL


yeah man that's crazy... like they saw some futuristic engine in a crystal ball then replicated it with 1950 technology. a weird mix of old and new/far-seeing. what a wonderful oddball.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/28/2019 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by Ken_Parkman Ken_Parkman wrote:


is it just the picture? or is that a crazy-large intake valve?

Here is a picture of the combustion chamber
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ambassador401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/29/2019 at 3:45am
Here's a cool setup

68 American
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/29/2019 at 5:11am
By "upgraded motor plate" I'm assuming you mean the engine mount plate as seen near the distributor in the third photo. Must be a mount on the other side near the oil pump, just can't quite make it out from the angle. The 196 (L-head and OHV) in pre 62 Ramblers have the same thing -- plate between block and timing cover for front engine mounts, rear are on the bell housing. Don't know why they had issues with that, but may be the way it was mounted to the frame. The Ramblers had a stamped crossmember directly under the front supports, I bet Willys used "frame horn" type supports extending from the frame over to the plate like later Jeeps do.

I wonder where that photo of the yellow CJ with Tornado engine was taken? AFAIK the Tornado was only used in the early FSJ in the US. Could have been swapped in though...

One last thing... Willys is an AMC like AMC is a Chrysler now. Just something to think about!
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ambassador401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/29/2019 at 5:29am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

By "upgraded motor plate" I'm assuming you mean the engine mount plate as seen near the distributor in the third photo. Must be a mount on the other side near the oil pump, just can't quite make it out from the angle. The 196 (L-head and OHV) in pre 62 Ramblers have the same thing -- plate between block and timing cover for front engine mounts, rear are on the bell housing. Don't know why they had issues with that, but may be the way it was mounted to the frame. The Ramblers had a stamped crossmember directly under the front supports, I bet Willys used "frame horn" type supports extending from the frame over to the plate like later Jeeps do.

I wonder where that photo of the yellow CJ with Tornado engine was taken? AFAIK the Tornado was only used in the early FSJ in the US. Could have been swapped in though...

One last thing... Willys is an AMC like AMC is a Chrysler now. Just something to think about!

You are right about the frame horn type supports, at least in wagoneer. That CJ is not factory, I dont remember where I found that picture but it is a custom swap and the engine propably later IKA version.

Tornado was also used in Willys wagons and pickups before FSJ


Edited by ambassador401 - Mar/29/2019 at 5:35am
68 American
68 Rebel
70 Javelin
71 Ambassador
73 Gremlin
A bunch of Jeeps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/29/2019 at 6:57am
I believe that CJ was built and raced by a gentleman named Brian Chuchua in California, who apparently sourced Argentinean parts.
I've been trying to track changes to the engine in Argentina, and it's clear it underwent constant upgrading over the years. They changed a lot of things, oil system, engine support, water passages, timing cover, etc. A major change was in about 73 when they went to 7 mains and a redesigned head with 12 lobe cam and *I think* hydraulic lifters, and at that point they changed the engine name to match the car - Torino. Some of the stuff will mix and match, pretty sure I've seen a Torino short block with a Tornado head. Lots of stuff on the net, but a severe lack of being able to understand Spanish.
 
BTW valves are 1.89" intake, 1.62" exhaust, and that is MASSIVE for such a tiny bore. But even more impressive is the flow/sq in, exceeds even the AMC. Those are the big advantages of a Hemi chamber. The downside is the total lack of normal squish area.
 
The big problem on the original early Tornado was oil consumption. The really early ones had a bunch of issues, oil drainage that did not work well and pushed oil through the exhaust guides, and big problems with how the engine mount plate was bolted to the block. The front of the block was really narrow, and the timing cover was quite a bit wider and the space was filled by the plate. Problem was there were only a few bolts right into the block, and the whole thing deflected and moved and was utterly inadequate. There were a bunch of service bulletin upgrades, some sort of hokey, and a number of casting changes on the head to actually have something to bolt the plate too. These things got cranked in as running changes during production. When they did the M715 engine there was a new block casting with a "flange" on the front to properly bolt the timing cover to, and they dumped the plate and went to block mounts. In what appears to be absolutely brilliant engineering they made the new block casting possible to be machined to fit the plate installation.
 
BTW there does not seem to be much wrong with the 4 main engine; that was the standard used in the Nuremberg race where they did so good. They seem to be pretty happy revving to a point, although probably the Torino is better. But it seems they did treat the balance a bit like a low speed truck engine at first; I found the flywheel way out of balance and have heard that from others.
 
There is really cool stuff in Argentina - IR heads and inductions systems, headers, pistons, roller valvetrains, etc. I found a youtube of what seems to be a seriously fast formula type car. They had a road racing series and the Tornado was so fast they outlawed it, none of the other cars could compete. Eventually they let the Torino's back in with - get this - 4.0 Cherokee engines. They are not as fast as the Tornado's and the other manufacturers have a chance.
 
Another bit of trivia is Bricklin was looking at using the Torino engine after AMC told them to take a hike. There is still a prototype car with the Torino 6.
 
I'm trying to create the best factory combination and still look stock - but I did not know the later M715 block could be used and now it is too late for that. I have the bits for all the SB upgrades. And it *looks* like Ambassadors engine is the best combination of that as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ambassador401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/29/2019 at 7:20am
THere is a homologation form for the nürburgring racer if you are interested

68 American
68 Rebel
70 Javelin
71 Ambassador
73 Gremlin
A bunch of Jeeps
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