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Stupid and heavily debated question..

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Jmerican View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2019 at 11:36am
I’m just skimming the last couple posts here. My .01$. The mention of diesel spec is true. Changed. There was/is some backwards compatibility but bear this in mind. Diesel oil’s job is very different. Many diesels are running roller cam gear. And all have to have high detergent. That can but not always interferes with the EP or ZZDP. Some diesel oils have reduced and reformulated the Antiwear package. Some are better now than ever, but do the research. HD oils have been a reasonable way to go, but double check. 

For reference, an oil like Swepco 306 still has a solid combo for our valvetrain. They sell a booster for that additive package as well. It’s a good bet, if a little hard to find, and a touch spendy.

In oil tribology, additives work as a package. That is important to accept. 

I like the Valvoline VR1 conventional. I run it in a late 4.0 baby Jeep. It’s not well spec’d for long drain intervals. But it has solid antiwear and base stock. That said, I feel it runs light. I haven’t looked up it’s spec. I have run the straight 30 and like it better when it’s cool out. It flows good cold, as does the 10/30, but those late model pistons don’t sound good with multi grade when it’s cool out. (Western Wa) VR1 is reasonable in cost ~ 6.5$/qt
Even with an injected 4.0, I don’t go long intervals with it. 

Our old AMCs (some) have the exhaust crossover and EGR. That, I have found is really hard on oil contamination, and cooks the already old valve seals, which of course make things worse. Those things dramatically effect mixture and carboning, even with EFI added. HD diesel oils do well with acid control, sludge control, detergents and dispersants. 

Blah blah. Hope this is helpful 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2019 at 11:43am
I like the 20/50 when warm out. They have a full course of straight weights. It’d be interesting, I think, to see where VR1 lands in viscosity. High in grade, vs low in grade. My hipshot says low, when cool. 

They don’t make a 5/W, but there are good performance flat tappet oils that are. They are getting spendy! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/23/2019 at 5:58pm
A little light reading for those interested:
A direct comparison and you can see that the "SN Plus" is far better then the SM or SN in many ways and very close to the the SJ and SL API classifications and better in some ways.
They don't show the SN which by research I have done is worse then the SM for our engines.
The diesel motor oils are also compared here.

Good to see improvements in the industry.

I should add, this is not to state there are no good SM and SN oils out there but you have to find them. If going strictly by ksi ratings there are good and bad.

What I am stating is that on a non performance build AMC, an SN Plus should serve well with factory specified viscosity and no research required.

Myself, I will be changing the modern fleet to Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN Plus.
Why - it's readily available and regularly on sale, has high ratings for ksi from a previous post. So why not?

The AMC - more a performance engine so will stick to higher ZDDP but also higher ksi. Wish I could get the VR1 conventional at a reasonable price point as I'd go there in a heartbeat.


Edited by Trader - Apr/23/2019 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/23/2019 at 10:23pm
Something Oil & ZDDP related I looked into some and failed to follow through...
What they call and sell as "ATV" Oil I think may still have ZDDP in it
since it is for "off road" use and they have not converter.
iirc the "ATV" Oils have a different Rating System / Letter Coder than Car oils.
Point being "ATV" oil may be usable, have ZDDP, and be easily available. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/24/2019 at 12:18pm
Trader, what does  VR1 cost where you are? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/24/2019 at 12:32pm
valvoline is open with their specs online, there is a sheet on VR1.
Based on my earlier thoughts above, on its viscosity, and some quick looks at their spec sheet, I will use their straight 40 for the PNW warmer season, and likely 30 for other. This is for an AMC 4.0 with the slightly sketchy late piston assembly. They make me nervous with their noisy cold nature. This is a low mile, well cared for rig. They occasionally fail in late 4.0s. Anyhow, point being, the VR1 straight weight is easy flowing in the cool and the 20/50 is too extreme and wasteful energy wise in the warm on a daily rig like mine. 

That said, we had harsh for PNW end of winter, and the Jeep got pressed everyday. The 30wt straight was noticeable in drag on cold start. I did feel a little guilty, but it was wasn’t motor honey or such. It was fine. Coulda been the battery. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/24/2019 at 10:23pm
VR1 10W30 synthetic is $37 a quart near me. Just not an option when I can get Lucas 10W30 at $39 for 5 quarts.
I really like the VR1 specs, just cannot justify the price point for not significantly better oil.

Interesting article on the SN Plus, stated that detergents in this oil actually prevent polarization and thus keep any ZDDP additive in suspension rather then it binding to the steal. 
The only way around this is to buy an SN Plus oil from a manufacturer that sells a ZDDP additive compatible with their oil.
So far Red Line, Lucas and Reslone - (they don't make oil but "state" their ZDDP additive is SN Plus compatible). There may be others. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BU1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2019 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

VR1 10W30 synthetic is $37 a quart near me.
 
 Where is "near me"?  Quick search online shows it at $9.99/qt at Napaonline. Numerous other places at
$12 or less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2019 at 12:42pm
Well it's been a while, I was out shopping and yes VR1 10W30 synthetic is $10 a quart at NAPA.

BUT it states on the bottle SL/SM, what the???
It turns out to be 840/770 Zinc/Phosphorus. It's just re-branded street motor oil from reading the Valvoline site specifications.

It's not their old, true race oil. Very disappointing advertising.
As good as an SN Plus for a non performance build.
If using it on a performance AMC build, I'd be finding a ZDDP compatible additive.  
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2019 at 12:56pm
I've been running Mobil 1 FS European Car Forumula 0W40.  According to Mobil's April 2019 spec, 1000 ppm phosphorous, 1100 ppm zinc. 
... and for Canadians, you can buy it off the shelf at Canadian Tire in a 4.73 litre jug and they often have it on sale.  50% off this weekend for Cdn$28.49 +tax ... about US$21.12 for 5 quarts or US$4.22 / quart.
... not quite same as OEM factory "10W30/10W40 SE" spec, but not much is these days.
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