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Oil in the radiator

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OssaMAR View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 12:33pm
 1980 FSJ with a 360 I have owned it for 8 years.
Runs strong but I have a small amount of oil in the radiator.
No water in the oil.
Head Gasket is not blown.
Are the oil and coolant passages next to each other on the head gaskets? or on the timing case?
I think I may have the oil entering the cooling system thru a bad gasket or do I have a bad timing cover.
Any Ideas?
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 12:47pm
Oil or tranny fluid?  I've seen the tranny cooler lines in the radiator line corrode and leak.  Check the trans dipstick.

If it were the timing cover or a head gasket, you'd almost for sure have antifreeze in the oil pan too.

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OssaMAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 1:42pm
The radiator is 5 years old. No water in the trans.

I am thinking is has to be between the oil passage and the coolant passage, just not sure where or if my timing cover has corroded  thur from the oil pump into the coolant passage or the head gasket has corroded between the oil passage to the rockers and a coolant passage.

I have never tore down a AMC v8 and not sure the layout of the oil and water passages.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 3:24pm
International dropped AMC motors back in the 70's due to this problem. There was a run of 401's that had porosity between the left oil gallery and the coolant at the bottom just behind #3.

 It seemed to be restricted to what AMC sold International. Rumor had it that AMC farmed out casting to a GM division at the time to up production.

Have not heard of this on a 360.

Had one of those blocks, started with a few drops and ended (6 years) with a cup of oil every 2 hours of run time before I pulled the motor to replace the block. Otherwise it ran strong!

You can check this by pulling the heads, putting the rockers in upside down and priming the oil to 60 PSI. If the block gets wet with oil behind a cylinder on the coolant side, time for a new block.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 9:04pm
[QUOTE=Trader]International dropped AMC motors back in the 70's due to this problem. There was a run of 401's that had porosity between the left oil gallery and the coolant at the bottom just behind #3.

 It seemed to be restricted to what AMC sold International. Rumor had it that AMC farmed out casting to a GM division at the time to up production.


That is simply incorrect. International bought AMC 401 engines due to a shortage of their 392. They were already buying 232 and 258 sixes. There is zero difference in the castings. I have at least 3 "International" 401s in my garage and one in my race car and have never had issues resembling what you describe. The problem likely here is the timing cover bolts have loosened and may be seeping past the gasket or corrosion in the water pump cavity creating small holes. I tighten all my timing covers on a regular basis along with oil pan as the vibration on my race car shakes them loose after a few hundred miles and start to see oil seepage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 9:47pm
Absolutely correct on why International wanted AMC engines.
But they did not keep them for long as they were performance engines and not work engines. 401 just 73 and 74.
The AMC I6's were stout for low RPM work engines and International used them for many years.
Their 345 and 392 were the desirable V8 engines.
I'll try and dig up the old article or service bulletin from International as memory serves, that is were it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 10:41pm
Trader,
 
AMC engines were used due to a strike that caused shortages of the larger v8 IHCs.  And just how do you pull the heads and put the rockers on upside down and then pressurize the block to 60 psi.  I build a few AMC engines a month and more than a few 400 IHCs and this just makes absolutely no sense!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/19/2019 at 5:34am
Pulling the rockers and putting then in upside down (camshaft in and timing cover is still on) blocks the oil going into most of the rockers and the rest will flow back into the crankcase. There will be oil seeping around the rocker bodies up top but it will be minimal and not shooting out. 60PSI with a drill priming as normal is achievable if the bearing clearances are good.  
The IH engines were work horses, low RPM torque built. They put them in school buses, stake trucks ... with truck transmissions and gearing.
My first job was at a truck shop and farmers would complain if their new truck came with the AMC motor as you had to change gears at 3000 or more RPM rather then 2500 RPM. Several had engine failure within warranty and insisted on IH motor replacement. Oil in the coolant being very common failure, confusing to me, but memorable.
The cams and carburetors for these IH applications were not changed, otherwise I believe they would have been a great work motor.
Will look for the document or article if I can find it. Back in the day IH caved and were putting IH motors in as replacements - maybe just because the strike was over and they now had supply?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/19/2019 at 11:48am
So my apologies. I cannot find the article so cannot state that it is in fact true.

True is I have a 401 block with this problem and it came from an IH truck. Red block.

True is 1973 IH 404 motors installed in Loadstar trucks had problems when running hot and downshifting there was failure of engine blocks due to thin cylinder walls and engine oil could flow to coolant or coolant to crankcase depending on were the casting was thin.
A couple of quotes from sections about the "bulletin" on IH forums, cannot find the whole thing:

"Some think that this engine family is AMC due to some having the same displacements but it is not, it is all IH."
"Operation over 3600 rpm may shorten the service life. But it can be run at 3600 continously under load."
I have talked to former IH employees you told me that they saw a bulletin IH sent to dealers stating that the 404-446 only had a service life of about 60-70% of the 345-392."

Again, my apologies as working from my head instead of trying to get the facts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/19/2019 at 8:15pm
Huh?
How do you put the rockers in upside down?  It's impossible. 
Steve Brown

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84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

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