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Oil in the radiator |
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OssaMAR
AMC Fan Joined: Feb/18/2019 Location: Mojave Desert Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 12:33pm |
1980 FSJ with a 360 I have owned it for 8 years. Runs strong but I have a small amount of oil in the radiator. No water in the oil. Head Gasket is not blown. Are the oil and coolant passages next to each other on the head gaskets? or on the timing case? I think I may have the oil entering the cooling system thru a bad gasket or do I have a bad timing cover. Any Ideas? Thanks
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tufcj
Supporter of TheAMCForum Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Watkins, CO Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
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Oil or tranny fluid? I've seen the tranny cooler lines in the radiator line corrode and leak. Check the trans dipstick. If it were the timing cover or a head gasket, you'd almost for sure have antifreeze in the oil pan too. Bob tufcj
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69 AMX
74 Javelin AMX 67 Rogue If you need a tool and don't buy it... you'll eventually pay for it... and not have it. Henry Ford |
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OssaMAR
AMC Fan Joined: Feb/18/2019 Location: Mojave Desert Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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The radiator is 5 years old. No water in the trans.
I am thinking is has to be between the oil passage and the coolant passage, just not sure where or if my timing cover has corroded thur from the oil pump into the coolant passage or the head gasket has corroded between the oil passage to the rockers and a coolant passage. I have never tore down a AMC v8 and not sure the layout of the oil and water passages. |
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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International dropped AMC motors back in the 70's due to this problem. There was a run of 401's that had porosity between the left oil gallery and the coolant at the bottom just behind #3.
It seemed to be restricted to what AMC sold International. Rumor had it that AMC farmed out casting to a GM division at the time to up production. Have not heard of this on a 360. Had one of those blocks, started with a few drops and ended (6 years) with a cup of oil every 2 hours of run time before I pulled the motor to replace the block. Otherwise it ran strong! You can check this by pulling the heads, putting the rockers in upside down and priming the oil to 60 PSI. If the block gets wet with oil behind a cylinder on the coolant side, time for a new block. |
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wheelz
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/29/2019 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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[QUOTE=Trader]International dropped AMC motors back in the 70's due to this problem. There was a run of 401's that had porosity between the left oil gallery and the coolant at the bottom just behind #3.
It seemed to be restricted to what AMC sold International. Rumor had it that AMC farmed out casting to a GM division at the time to up production. That is simply incorrect. International bought AMC 401 engines due to a shortage of their 392. They were already buying 232 and 258 sixes. There is zero difference in the castings. I have at least 3 "International" 401s in my garage and one in my race car and have never had issues resembling what you describe. The problem likely here is the timing cover bolts have loosened and may be seeping past the gasket or corrosion in the water pump cavity creating small holes. I tighten all my timing covers on a regular basis along with oil pan as the vibration on my race car shakes them loose after a few hundred miles and start to see oil seepage
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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Absolutely correct on why International wanted AMC engines.
But they did not keep them for long as they were performance engines and not work engines. 401 just 73 and 74. The AMC I6's were stout for low RPM work engines and International used them for many years. Their 345 and 392 were the desirable V8 engines. I'll try and dig up the old article or service bulletin from International as memory serves, that is were it is. |
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69 ambassador 390
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/22/2009 Location: Peoria, AZ Status: Offline Points: 3539 |
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Trader,
AMC engines were used due to a strike that caused shortages of the larger v8 IHCs. And just how do you pull the heads and put the rockers on upside down and then pressurize the block to 60 psi. I build a few AMC engines a month and more than a few 400 IHCs and this just makes absolutely no sense! |
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Steve Brown
Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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Pulling the rockers and putting then in upside down (camshaft in and timing cover is still on) blocks the oil going into most of the rockers and the rest will flow back into the crankcase. There will be oil seeping around the rocker bodies up top but it will be minimal and not shooting out. 60PSI with a drill priming as normal is achievable if the bearing clearances are good.
The IH engines were work horses, low RPM torque built. They put them in school buses, stake trucks ... with truck transmissions and gearing. My first job was at a truck shop and farmers would complain if their new truck came with the AMC motor as you had to change gears at 3000 or more RPM rather then 2500 RPM. Several had engine failure within warranty and insisted on IH motor replacement. Oil in the coolant being very common failure, confusing to me, but memorable. The cams and carburetors for these IH applications were not changed, otherwise I believe they would have been a great work motor. Will look for the document or article if I can find it. Back in the day IH caved and were putting IH motors in as replacements - maybe just because the strike was over and they now had supply?
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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So my apologies. I cannot find the article so cannot state that it is in fact true.
True is I have a 401 block with this problem and it came from an IH truck. Red block. True is 1973 IH 404 motors installed in Loadstar trucks had problems when running hot and downshifting there was failure of engine blocks due to thin cylinder walls and engine oil could flow to coolant or coolant to crankcase depending on were the casting was thin. A couple of quotes from sections about the "bulletin" on IH forums, cannot find the whole thing: "Some think that this engine family is AMC due to some having the same displacements but it is not, it is all IH." "Operation over 3600 rpm may shorten the service life. But it can be run at 3600 continously under load." " I have talked to former IH employees you told me that they saw a bulletin IH sent to dealers stating that the 404-446 only had a service life of about 60-70% of the 345-392." Again, my apologies as working from my head instead of trying to get the facts. |
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69 ambassador 390
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/22/2009 Location: Peoria, AZ Status: Offline Points: 3539 |
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Huh?
How do you put the rockers in upside down? It's impossible.
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Steve Brown
Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
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