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Need Help Troubleshooting

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PacerLarry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PacerLarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need Help Troubleshooting
    Posted: May/01/2019 at 8:11pm
I have a brand new combination in my car, but it just won't run right. I'm running out of ideas and nerd some help.

Combination:
360 +.030 trw pistons
291 heads with port work done (bought used, don't know who did the work)
Torker
650 double pumper
Home made headers
Comp  XE274 cam (.520/.523 274/286 hydraulic flat tappet)
4000 stall converter
9" with 3:89 gear and 26" tires
MSD 6al box 1 year old

The problem:
1st gear pulls hard, my 60ft is down 2 tenths from last year, shift at 5900, second gear runs out of steam right at 5000. Car just stops pulling, noses over, rpm won't climb no mater how long I stay in it. 3rd gear is the same.
The cam is rated to 6000, so this does not seem right.

I've tried, all at separate times and with no success:
2 different coils
2 different distributors (MSD)
New plugs/wires
750 double pumper
Jetting both carbs up
Unplugged shift light 
Unplugged tach

My valve springs are recomended by comp, installed height and pressure were checked at install. Brand new valves were installed and lapped at assembly, and TDC was verified on balancer.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? 
Am I trying to get too much out of a hydraulic cam?

I would be pulling my hair out over this if I had anyLOL


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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2019 at 8:24pm
What are you using for fuel pump and line?

Seems that by the time your bowls have nearly emptied in 1st gear, your fuel is not being delivered fast enough in 2nd, since RPMs are ramping up slower by gear change.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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PacerLarry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PacerLarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2019 at 8:31pm
I have a 5 gallon cell, holly blue pump and -6 line front to back. I flow tested the pump just before the regulator and calculated 105 gal/hr (blue pump is rated at 110)
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amxron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amxron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2019 at 8:53pm
T in a fuel pressure gauge at the carb. See what pressure you have when it noses over.
 
I had a similar problem years ago but, a GPH-110 cured it. Maybe a fuel filter or kinked line.
 
Goodluck,
 
Ron.
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PacerLarry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PacerLarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2019 at 8:56pm
The fuel gauge is a good idea. My flow test was after the filter to eliminate that as a variable
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WesternRed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2019 at 12:51am
What was the previous cam, have you gone bigger or smaller? I would expect a valve train issue to show up at the same RPM regardless of gear. Sounds more like it is running out of fuel, air or possibly spark. Some sort of transmission/converter issue perhaps?
I've finally given up drinking for good...........now I only drink for evil.
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PacerLarry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PacerLarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2019 at 7:57am
I went bigger with the cam. The last one was a Comp 268H (.456/268)

I've been chasing fuel and spark as that makes the most sense. My thoughts with the cam were, even though Comp says it can handle up to 6k, is it possible that at that sustained RPM the hydraulic lifters are pumping and hanging the valves open or bleeding down and not opening the valves enough? 

I'm hoping someone has experience with a similar combo that can say one way or another that the hydraulic lifters can or can't be the problem.

The only thing untested in the ignition system is the 6al box, but it is only a year old (still could be bad)
I know i have enough fuel volume from the pump, and I didn't think a 360, making 400hp max in my best dreams would be that undercarbureted with a 650. 

I appreciate everyone's input
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2019 at 8:19am
Even with stock lifters, you can hit 6000 easily. Though stock valve springs will be a root cause to limit proper valve timing.

The few things electrical wise that may cause such an issue are, being a seasonal use car, there may be electrical contact issues with fuel pump, or electronic spark controller. I would carefully check all electrical connecfions as for proper crimps and possible pinch areas. As removal of engine components can make for wires being compromised by movement for removal of hardware.

The other electrical issue is resistor or no resistor inline to the coil.
Some coils require a resistor, being not familiar with your setup personally, i am going by what some have pointed out on other threads.

Check your plugs... over all look after each run with quick shutdown and coast. If lack of spark, those plugs should look a wee wet or hqve burnt residue build up.



71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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PHAT69AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2019 at 12:40pm
Ok, just a random guess, ? over pre-loaded hydraulic lifters pumping up and holding valves open ?
Agree, 650 DP should work and not cause it, but I did run an 850 DP successfully on a 367 for a while.
But would do something to confirm enough fuel delivery to the carb at rpm...
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PacerLarry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PacerLarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2019 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Ok, just a random guess, ? over pre-loaded hydraulic lifters pumping up and holding valves open ?
Agree, 650 DP should work and not cause it, but I did run an 850 DP successfully on a 367 for a while.
But would do something to confirm enough fuel delivery to the carb at rpm...

I set the lifter pre-load to 1/2 turn. This is similar to what I was wondering. Is it possible that higher oil pressure is hanging the valves open? Anyone heard of or experienced this?
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