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Decking 343 Engine Block

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Shawn_Watson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn_Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 5:51am
I think Rick and Randy would have to get it done with Camelhumps this year, assuming I read the rules right.

We're not getting our choice of aftermarket heads to choose from for an AMC.


Shawn

Edit: Did they do a writeup on your build?


Edited by Shawn_Watson - Apr/26/2019 at 7:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jtsllc1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 9:16am
Diamond pistons did a nice write up on their blog, I never seen the 2017 Challenge ever come out in a magazine.

After I made my pulls finishing 16 minutes early the person running the Engine Master came up to me and shook my hand saying I did exactly what the Engine Masters was all about and he was super excited. I gathered the papers for the 3 pulls I wanted to average for my score and crossed the hall way to record. As soon as I got in the room there was 3 students assisting and the one student in the center jumped out of his chair and said that was f@cking awesome!!!!! F@ck the proffesors and F@ck the students... I live fed the whole thing on FB and through the University students cut their classes to go outside and hear the AMC engine run... The engine sounded great and lifted the 10 inch dia. exhaust pipes right off the jackstands.... Only 3 engines have done that... So I said what is going on and he said the proffessors took their class of students by you for you to explain your build and when I listened to you it made sense how you were going to make the HP and expected.around 500 HP. The proffessor went back to class and told the students you were full of sh@t you would be lucky if you made 350 HP with that combination. So I thought to myself that is why the guy in charge of the challenge was so excited I proved everyone wrong. So this student was the only one who believed me  when he listened to me with his class tour and just rubbed it in their faces... I went up to the student who they called the Hulk and said where is the love.... did you think I was full of sh@t and he replied Jimmy everyone is full of sh@t but you proved us wrong. So the professor came to see me afterwards and said he was wrong along with he guess's he does not know what is going on in the real world... So I thought this would be a good time to ask him if I can bring engine one down to dyno and see if I could have beat Creason he rplied you are welcome anytime and the students would be glad to help... It was also very cool when the winner walked up and asked how much dyno time did you have..... I said enough time to jet the carb and make sure it did not eat bearings... He said that is damn good guys spend weeks testing for the challenge. Creason said now that I have seen everything  I will win after my 3rd time... The reason he said this is I got no reply when I asked what I could do. I also picked up on allot of how to get around obsticals legally... One thing is for sure Creason built 2.engines one with the thought Bigger is Better and one the way I think bigger is not better... He made 570.HP with his 1 5/8 headers and made.more power on average... When I asked Creason how.much testing he did he says he try's a new cam.almost every weekend just to see what it really does... Goes to show you testing is key... All I needed was more air to run the numbers the rest of the combo is good. Going smaller on cubes this time is also good thing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn_Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 9:44am
Yeah, those guys tested all kinds of stuff.  I loathe arrogance but they did a good job.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jtsllc1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 10:57pm
I think.we did good because how many times does a Chevy guy come.up and say you will be able to win this Challenge not to mention the AMC put a big smile on the Chevy guy 's face who dyno tested the engine before we went. It put a Big smile on his face as the engine got away from him and went right to 7500 RPM... He turned to me and said well I can tell you the intake and exhaust are not resticting anything. He prints out the dyno results and it prints too fast no data from 4000 RPM to 5000 RPM... So I went into the challenge a little  blind... LOL... We were both laughing... The engine did exactly what Edelbrock confimed when they came out.

I can tell you we earned some respect the whole shop came running in back to see the next pulls..... 

Kind of funny how Creason who won built 2 engines. One with bigger is better and one on the same page we are on... The one built on the same page made more power on average then the bigger is better. He made 530 HP with 1.4 ratio rockers and ended up with 1.9 ratio rockers making 570 HP running a cam with 104 LS.... Also for the big tube header guys Creason made this power with 1 5/8 headers... L.M.A.O.

I.M.O. Creason read my entry information on theorey because why would you build 2 engines... One bigger is better and one completely opposite...

When we compared notes I was making more HP per CFM then Creason so I can only think what would have happened if we ran engine 1?

Now I would like to go back and see... 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn_Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/27/2019 at 7:04am
Yeah, the big headers, 12+ exhaust split and wide centers makes me cringe every time, lol.

It sounds like a busy but fun time.  I hope you kick some arse.  I'm hoping to attend the REC this year as a spectator to get an idea of how things go down.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/27/2019 at 7:12am
Great thread!
Good luck Jim I love reading this stuff. Smile
71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/27/2019 at 7:22am

'66 American 440 Convertible 290/M-40/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn_Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/27/2019 at 4:47pm
I only recall the rules saying the bore can't exceed .065 of OEM but I don't recall they setting a minimum.  Do you know if you can go smaller than OEM for a given block?


Shawn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtsllc1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/28/2019 at 12:42pm
Good question..... I.M.O. with the Early Iron class you would have to go down to a 290 to run the smaller bore. I did not read the rules Spiro would just call and asked questions since he was entering. He wanted to go with a 290 after talking to Adkins. Adkins built Garrets 343 SS engine but I think he had to leave the pistons .060 in the hole which was not ideal....

I.M.O. the 343 makes a good choice because this is not NHRA rules so I can deck the block to end up with the piston .006 in the hole and decking the block also positions the non ported Pro Flow 2 where I need it to be. So from an economic point of view, off the shelf forged 360 pistons, off the shelf Molnar rods, stock cast 343 crank and stock 343 block with main studs makes the wallet very happy!!!


I can tell you asking questions is easy getting them to respond is hard...
I ran into this with the rockers I could not run a shaft system but I could run a bridged system..... THANK YOU HS for making them for AMC 
and they can handle up to 400lbs open....I was 380lbs open...

If I would have known I could run any ratio I wanted for the Challenge I would have run the 1.7 ratio HS has since the Olds 1.7 works for AMC.

So while you are at the challenge checking out everyone else's buildsoyou quickly see what you could have done and  you start adding up the HP you left on the table.
 
The risk for building an engine early for next year is the rules can change. But if you can get a combo to make the power you will just be tweaking it to meet the rules...

Like after the 1st time out I know the Pro Flow 2 is good because it gives me the long flat curve I need. The exhaust is good but I might want to shorten the primary pipes and make the stepped lengths a little more equal to each other in length. I need to make some changes to my collector extensions like the others at the challenge did to get around the rules....

So no matter what changes I do I need to test them to see what the results are...

I can tell you Spiro was right the name of the game is torque with a good hang time...

To the rules this year I think the 343 would make 550 HP...The best part is the engine will be street friendly and I can put it in a car after the challenge... So to build an engine to use in the Challenge and the AMX is a win win!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn_Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/28/2019 at 1:03pm
Yeah, there are some of the basics I'd like to get sorted out as much as possible and then, hopefully, nothing is too major when they inevitably change the rules.

One thing I definitely need to explore is the "NHRA Stock Eliminator" rocker arm deal and a few cracked cylinder heads to stretch out.


Shawn




Edited by Shawn_Watson - Apr/28/2019 at 1:06pm
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