TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 1964 Rambler Classic w 199?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

1964 Rambler Classic w 199?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
330inthemorning View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Mar/25/2019
Location: AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 330inthemorning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/24/2019 at 8:09pm
looks as though that 550 wagon in milwaukee has been deleted from CL.
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: earth
Status: Offline
Points: 7522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/24/2019 at 9:50pm
fwiw, the classic wagon doesn't "feel" as large as you'd think. it's 108" wheelbase, an easy drive with manual steering and manual brakes, as per old world car configuration.

i too have been sorta-kinda- looking for a wagon, and assuming i would get a pre-64 wagon, but wow are those scarce.

i'm re-considering a 63, 64 classic wagon. the torque tube scares people off, but they're extremely reliable (admittedly hard to work on when you do need to fiddle with u-joints). i drove mine ('70 232, '65 flashomatic) for 21 years. never failed me seriously on the road. they're relatively common, and the stuff that i hate from 70+ AMCs (door hinges, crappy glass and guides, excessive plastic dash, crap upholstery, etc) is all Nash-like 50's car stuff and much much easier to work on.

i hauled engines in it. 4x8 sheets of plywood. two of us plus dogs slept in it dozens of nights (its tight for that). 18 mpg on the highway if i was nice to it. suspension was weird, but all the bad 50's crap fixed. rode great. cornering, well, predictable and soft. easy to work on.


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

Back to Top
330inthemorning View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Mar/25/2019
Location: AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 330inthemorning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/24/2019 at 10:35pm
i'm re-considering not selling my 330 long roof (which if i sell it, would leave me only with a late-model work van for 4-wheeled vehicles).

it's growing on me.  that, and besides us folks here who drool over these weird old AMCs, they are a hard sell to get noobs into, lol.  

i'm an AMC noob, myself, but have always had a morbid curiosity with old ramblers. 

i bought my '64 330 wagon because i want to see if what everyone says is true--that i can get 30 MPG out of it.  i'm skeptical, but i will gear all my tune-up work and driving habits to achieve this goal (195.6 OHV, T-96 OD).

some guy in PHX gave me a 199 that turns.  if i keep this beast, i'd like to do a mild build on it, and mate it to a T-5.  i like the idea of keeping it original, but a 2'nd gen I-6 and a 5-speed would make this car very drivable, where the anemic drivetrain that's in it just needs to be babied.

that 550 wagon really talked to me, though i had no intention on getting it.  i liked the fact that it has an AZ title.  i suspect that the seller either changed his mind, or that the OP bought it.  i thought he was asking a little too much for it.


Edited by 330inthemorning - Apr/24/2019 at 10:42pm
Back to Top
vinny View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum


Joined: Jan/05/2012
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Points: 2837
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2019 at 7:13am
Paying the price would be worth it if the car is as good as it looks, except for the upholstery and now it will cost you double. Once the 196 is gone a roll bar will bolt right in which will give it a little more stability around the corners. A better transmission is desirable but how do you get one to fit the T/T? I took the easy route and put in an auto. 

I don't believe anyone can get 30 MPG US. I used to get 27 Imp. in the classic with 196, which is 22 1/2 US. Tom with his modified 196 in a small car can probably do quite a bit better.
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 8:22am
330inthemorning - skip the 199 and get a 72 or later 232/258. you can bolt a T-5 right to those. AMC change the bell bolt pattern in 72 -- you need a special adapter to bolt a T-5 to a pre 72 six. Modern Driveline makes on, but you might have to wait a bit to get it as they don't keep them in stock. You should be able to get a decent 72+ 232/258 (or even a 4.0L -- you can run a carb on it if you like) for the cost of the adapter.

Since you have a 64-65 American, the 4.0L makes sense. It has the short shaft water pump and pulley you'd need to fit a 199/232 in. Just use an electric fan or get a Wrangler 4.0L water pump and a nylon Flex-a-Lite reverse rotation fan. The XJ 4.0L water pump bearing might not last long with the added weight of a fan, and the bolt pattern won't take a fan. It's not real hard to use the EFI though.

But since you want gas mileage, try a Jeep 2.5L or a Ford ranger 2.3/2.5L, or some other rear drive truck four over 2.0L. Easy to find with a five speed, and as much or more power as the 196. A good bit less torque at low rpm, but you make up for that with the five speed.

Frank Swygert
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 9:03am
Oh you CAN get close to 30 mpg... with extremely careful driving and low speeds (search for "hypermiling"). More common is the upper 20s in Ramblers though. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil_Economy_Run:

"In the 47-car field for 1959 (in the Mobil Economy Run), a Rambler American was first - averaging 25.2878 miles per US gallon - while a Rambler Six was second - with an average of 22.9572 miles per US gallon  - for the five-day, 1,898-mile (3,055 km) trip from Los Angeles, California to Kansas City, Missouri."

Here's a good article on Rambler economy:

The 1955 Rambler four door with 108" wheelbase, 196 L-head, and auto trans (heavy Dual Range Hydramatic, a four speed) got an astounding 27.47 mpg! In 51 a Nash Rambler convertible with the 172.6 L-head and OD got 31.05 mpg. Note that the top speed was just over 40 mph though. In 57 a pair of Rambler 6 Wagons got right at 30 mpg, one ran the turnpikes (this is pre Interstate!) and one normal roads, and got 30.14 mpg at an average of 55 mph on the turnpikes, 29.62 at an average of 40.49 mph on normal roads. The number of starts and stops was the main difference, which also increased the average speed.

So it CAN be done -- you just have to slow down and drive very carefully. Having a five speed should help, but not necessarily. My 2005 Expedition with a four speed auto is rated at the same mpg and towing capacity as a newer model with six speed. You'd think more gears would increase efficiency to the point it would get at least 1-2 mpg more, but it doesn't in real world testing. I can tell you that cruising 68-70 vs. 60-64 makes a noticeable difference!  I drove 68-70 from my home to the beach, about a three hour trip, and used about 3/4 tank of gas. Coming home I kept the speed down to 60-64 and only burned half a tank. So I got ~30% more just by slowing down. That significant in a big thirsty SUV!
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
330inthemorning View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Mar/25/2019
Location: AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 330inthemorning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 1:20pm
i just happen to have a 199 out of a '69 rambler that ran when pulled.  i will possibly install it mated to the T-96 i have, and call it good.  i may actually search for a T-85 or an early T-14 w/ OD to put in its place if i build the 199 to be hotter than stock. 

Edited by 330inthemorning - Apr/26/2019 at 1:23pm
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: earth
Status: Offline
Points: 7522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2019 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by 330inthemorning 330inthemorning wrote:

i bought my '64 330 wagon because i want to see if what everyone says is true--that i can get 30 MPG out of it.  i'm skeptical, but i will gear all my tune-up work and driving habits to achieve this goal (195.6 OHV, T-96 OD).

downhill with the wind and 3-in-1 oil in the transmission and wheel bearings, and hard skinny tires blowed up ta 50 psi, and stick to 35 mph (air drag). lol.

but i could get 25 mpg WHEN I WAS REALLY LUCKY AND DROVE SLOW in my 195.6 ohv + OD, so i bet a bit of 'hypermiling' could get you close to 30...

who knows though!

Quote i like the idea of keeping it original, but a 2'nd gen I-6 and a 5-speed would make this car very drivable, where the anemic drivetrain that's in it just needs to be babied.

this parallels my thinking exactly. and even though i'm quite happy with my engine, the idea of a rock-solid, drop-dead-solid, no-brainer 199/232/258 is awful appealing... but you can in fact make the old engine very reliable.

you know... 195.6 butts and 199 butts are the same butts. so you could put a T-5 behind the 195.6, and later bolt in a 199. of course there would be more work to do but in a 63-up Classic or 64-up American it would not be an unreasonable "incremental" update.

you can even use the same flyweel....



1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.168 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or